It is currently Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:36 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:07 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:52 am
Posts: 7306
Quote:
On Janurary 28, Rueters News pubilished a "Special Report" about Mormonism's difficult encounter with the modern era. Regarding the younger generation, the article quotes Elder Jensen as saying, "there's no sense kidding ourselves, we just need to be very upfront with them and tell them what we know and give answers to what we have and call on their faith like we all do for things we don't understand."


It seems, in Sweden, Elder Jensen is shifting his ground slightly...

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:43 am 
Teacher
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:51 am
Posts: 273
Quote:
(1) The Church does not hide historical facts. In fact, it makes every effort to be open and honest about its past and current actions.

(2) The internet and digital records now make information about the Church available to many who because of language and other limitations have not previously known of this information. This does not mean that such information was hidden by the Church; it was simply not generally available.


[*snip*]

I think this sums up the things we agreed to during our meeting. We join our faith and prayers with yours that we can make difference in the lives of those Swedish Saints whose faith is being tested.

May the Lord bless you and your associates there, is our prayer.

Sincerely your brother

Elder Marlin K. Jensen

The fact that the Swedes are finding out about these skeletons in the LDS closet through the internet, rather than through the LDS Church (which has known about them all along), is a complete coincidence. That's the story the local leaders have "agreed" to tell?

That, right there, is some darkly cynical ____. It makes sense as a corporate strategy, but it is a lie.

-JV


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:28 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:48 pm
Posts: 18536
Quote:
According to the LDS Church's Family History website, Joseph Smith, Jr., the 'Prophet of the Restoration', married 14-year old Helen Mark Kimball in May 1843 when he was 37


Doesn't jive with the claim.

_________________
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
A lesson on 'Faggotry' for Kevin Graham; a legitimately descriptive and even positive term used by homosexuals themselves.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:37 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:40 pm
Posts: 1230
Location: Mesa, Arizona
bcspace wrote:
Quote:
According to the LDS Church's Family History website, Joseph Smith, Jr., the 'Prophet of the Restoration', married 14-year old Helen Mark Kimball in May 1843 when he was 37


Doesn't jive with the claim.


jive = a dance
jibe = to agree with

_________________
eschew obfuscation

"I'll let you believers in on a little secret: not only is the LDS church not really true, it's obviously not true." -Sethbag


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:59 pm 
Star B
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:30 am
Posts: 107
Location: City of Champions
Does anyone know how many members in Sweden are part of this apostasy?

M.

_________________
I'd rather be a could-be if I cannot be an are; because a could-be is a maybe who - is reaching for a star. I'd rather be a has-been than a might-have-been, by far; for a might have-been has never been, but a has was once an are. - Milton Berle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:29 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:15 am
Posts: 2978
Location: OreIda
sock puppet wrote:
Marlin K Jensen wrote:
faith is a conscious choice that each must make


Consciously choose to put stock in a mere hope for things not seen?

Consciously choose to act without evidence?

Consciously choose to be irrational?

Consciously choose neuroses?

Consciously...?



Sock it was that quote by Jensen that bothered me the most. I loved your comments.

_________________
aka Pokatator joined Oct 26, 2006 and permanently banned from MAD Nov 6, 2006
"Stop being such a damned coward and use your real name to own your position."
"That's what he gets for posting in his own name."
2 different threads same day 2 hours apart Yohoo Bat 12/1/2015


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:34 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:15 am
Posts: 2978
Location: OreIda
Bob Loblaw wrote:
I hear Walmart is trying to expand into Scandinavia. :lol:



Or maybe KFC would be interested.

_________________
aka Pokatator joined Oct 26, 2006 and permanently banned from MAD Nov 6, 2006
"Stop being such a damned coward and use your real name to own your position."
"That's what he gets for posting in his own name."
2 different threads same day 2 hours apart Yohoo Bat 12/1/2015


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:14 pm 
The Outcast

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:52 am
Posts: 17063
bcspace wrote:
Quote:
JSJr had his hands in 14 year old girls' pants?

The Book of Abraham is not what JSJr claimed?


Neither of those claims is even close to being proven

There's more evidence for each than there is for the existence of your Sky Pilot.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:54 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:23 am
Posts: 12511
Location: On the imaginary axis
sock puppet wrote:
JSJr had his hands in 14 year old girls' pants?


bcspace wrote:
Quote:
According to the LDS Church's Family History website, Joseph Smith, Jr., the 'Prophet of the Restoration', married 14-year old Helen Mark Kimball in May 1843 when he was 37


Doesn't jive with the claim.


If a man is married to a 14-year old girl (and it is not disputed that Joseph Smith was married to the 14-year old girl in question), the action referred to by sock puppet seems perfectly within the bounds of possibility. I don't see what bcspace is objecting to.

_________________
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:06 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:48 pm
Posts: 18536
Quote:
Doesn't jive with the claim.

Quote:
jive = a dance
jibe = to agree with


It's perfectly cromulent.

_________________
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
A lesson on 'Faggotry' for Kevin Graham; a legitimately descriptive and even positive term used by homosexuals themselves.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:10 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 6598
sock puppet wrote:
There's more evidence for each than there is for the existence of your Sky Pilot.


bcspace is trolling. Put him on ignore and throw him out with the trash.

Paul O

_________________
Not Like Real Egyptian


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:09 am 
Star B
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:30 am
Posts: 107
Location: City of Champions
Maureen wrote:
Does anyone know how many members in Sweden are part of this apostasy?


I'm going to answer my own question. :smile:

There seems to be a little over 2200 active LDS members (over 8800 in the records) in Sweden, with Sweden having a total population of 7.8 million.

http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=main&wid=209

M.

_________________
I'd rather be a could-be if I cannot be an are; because a could-be is a maybe who - is reaching for a star. I'd rather be a has-been than a might-have-been, by far; for a might have-been has never been, but a has was once an are. - Milton Berle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:10 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:52 am
Posts: 7306
Maureen wrote:
Does anyone know how many members in Sweden are part of this apostasy?

M.


Both of them...

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:29 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 18965
Location: Koloburbia
beefcalf wrote:
jive = a dance
jibe = to agree with


So Jibe Turkeys are poultry who achieve a mutual understanding?

_________________
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:45 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:35 pm
Posts: 18195
Location: Shady Acres Status: MODERATOR
If I was a member in Sweden, I'd resent being "rescued". I mean, good grief... rescued? implying they aren't smart enough, old enough, skilled enough to make their own decisions?

Talk about patronizing!

_________________
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:51 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:46 pm
Posts: 1690
Location: Somewhere on the ocean with know-it-all control freak Nephi
Drifting wrote:
Maureen wrote:
Does anyone know how many members in Sweden are part of this apostasy?

M.


Both of them...



freaking awesome!

_________________
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude

Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:56 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:26 pm
Posts: 3323
Juggler Vain wrote:
The fact that the Swedes are finding out about these skeletons in the LDS closet through the internet, rather than through the LDS Church (which has known about them all along), is a complete coincidence. That's the story the local leaders have "agreed" to tell?

That, right there, is some darkly cynical s***. It makes sense as a corporate strategy, but it is a lie.

-JV


Did you expect anything more than a lie? They've been lying for 182 years and they're good at it.

_________________
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:07 pm 
Regional Representative

Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 9:12 pm
Posts: 671
harmony wrote:
If I was a member in Sweden, I'd resent being "rescued". I mean, good grief... rescued? implying they aren't smart enough, old enough, skilled enough to make their own decisions?


Why are the GAs giving the Swedes all the Attention? Aren't they planning on addressing Utah's membership Issues where people are leaving in droves? In Salt Lake they've been adjusting Youth Stake and Ward boundaries so often because they can't keep butts in the seats. In fact It makes people sick. Newlyweds are also leaving because they're refusing to teach their children lies. With the economy the way it is people don't want to hear lies.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:19 pm 
hatersinmyward wrote:
Why are the GAs giving the Swedes all the Attention? Aren't they planning on addressing Utah's membership Issues where people are leaving in droves? In Salt Lake they've been adjusting Youth Stake and Ward boundaries so often because they can't keep butts in the seats. In fact It makes people sick. Newlyweds are also leaving because they're refusing to teach their children lies. With the economy the way it is people don't want to hear lies.


I think they're experimenting in certain locations first. They don't want to try the rescue in Salt Lake and have it backfire.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:58 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:52 am
Posts: 6855
The biggest problem, of course, is that the church isn't really true, so there's no really good answers to the problems that are actually true. So the church struggles with the best answers they can get, which aren't really that good.

People really looking into the problems and desiring the truth more than the "motivated reasoning" of the mopologists will quickly see through the crap answers.

----

One red flag that I think Swedish members (and everyone else for that matter) should be turned off by is the admonition to avoid anything that disturbs "the Spirit". When a believing member stumbles upon disturbing facts about the Book of Abraham, or Joseph Smith's industrial-scale secret polygamy, or whatever, it often leads to a sort of fear or dread, as the member faces the prospect that their beliefs might not be true after all. This very feeling can be, and is, spun by the church as a "loss of the Spirit", and thus members are advised to stay away from the information that lead to it.

That's right, LDS leaders essentially teach that information itself can be evil. Coincidentally, the information that is evil is the information that contradicts the LDS truth claims - precisely the kinds of information a real truth-seeker should be interested in. It's a lot easier to win the battle for ideas when you have the power to ban all the competing arguments.

With the Internet, that ban is nearly impossible to enforce upon the truly curious.

_________________
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:13 pm 
Regional Representative

Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 9:12 pm
Posts: 671
Honestly I saw insincerity when I read the opening post.

When the S.L. Tribune reports on this issue I'll call it a lagit issue.

One of my biggest pet peeves is when somebody devises blatant lies for attention.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group