It is currently Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:01 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Rescue'
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:55 pm 
Nursery

Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:13 pm
Posts: 35
Apostasy is running rampant in Sweden with many prominent LDS families and leaders recently leaving the church over historical problems of the church that are becoming well-known there. In order to help these struggling members in Sweden, the LDS Church issued a document to the local leadership called 'The Swedish Rescue'.

These documents are circulating on the Internet on various Swedish Internet groups. A member in Sweden translated it and sent it to MormonThink to share with other members who might find it of interest.

http://www.mormonthink.com/swedish-rescue.htm

_________________
Dianne Ormond
MormonThink.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:56 pm 
Classless piece of s***
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:11 pm
Posts: 2515
Location: The Orange House, 3rd door on the left.
GOOD GOD! NOT THE SWEDES!

_________________
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:02 pm 
Prophet
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:35 pm
Posts: 875
Interesting stuff...

Quote:
Letter from Church History Department

”The Swedish Rescue” Salt Lake City, January 21, 2012.

I think we all agree that in your efforts to rescue those who are struggling, no ”program” [i.e. The Addiction Program] is needed. Rather, priesthood leaders who hold keys, who are filled with charity, and who seek the guidance of the Spirit, will know in each case how best to proceed.

The following summary of the principles that we discussed during your visit may be helpful to you and local priesthood leaders;

(1) The Church does not hide historical facts. In fact, it makes every effort to be open and honest about its past and current actions.

(2) The internet and digital records now make information about the Church available to many who because of language and other limitations have not previously known of this information. This does not mean that such information was hidden by the Church; it was simply not generally available.

(3) Joseph Smith and the prophets who succeeded him were not wicked or deceiving men. Joseph did not become a ”fallen prophet.” He and all other prophets of this dispensation have human weaknesses. They have often admitted this and the scriptures sometimes confirm that God is not pleased with them. However, they worthily exercised their priesthood keys and led the Church in their time as directed by God through revelation. This is true of President Thomas S. Monson today.

(4) Obtaining or regaining a testimony of Joseph Smith as a prophet of God and of the restoration of the gospel through him is always essentially a spiritual quest. Nephi’s reminder to his older brother of the Lord’s words provides a good description of the path each must walk: ”If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in faith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be made known unto you”, (1 Nephi 15:11).

(5) In working with individual members who are expressing doubts, priesthood leaders should (a) provide the best possible answers to the questions the members are asking, (b) teach the spiritual path each must walk to gain or regain a testimony, helping the members to remember past spiritual witnesses and to avoid contact with evil influences, and (c) emphasize that faith is a conscious choice that each must make.

(6) As guided by the Spirit, the scriptures, and Handbook 1 (section 6.7.3 material on Apostasy), priesthood leaders may need to take disciplinary action with those members who persist in publicly opposing the Church and its leaders after they have been lovingly worked with and corrected by their bishop or higher authority. Alma’s counsel is important in this regard: ”Now repentance could not come unto men except there were a punishment…” (Alma 42:16).

The three-point approach [1. Prevent, 2. Regain and 3. Facts & Answers]… formulated after our meeting may be a very good framework to share with priesthood leaders along with the principles set out above.

I think this sums up the things we agreed to during our meeting. We join our faith and prayers with yours that we can make difference in the lives of those Swedish Saints whose faith is being tested.

May the Lord bless you and your associates there, is our prayer.

Sincerely your brother

Elder Marlin K. Jensen


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:05 pm 
Prophet
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:35 pm
Posts: 875
Also, this:

Quote:
The truthfulness of a story is affected by:

1) a narrators awareness or unawareness to angle information.
2) the time elapsed from the event to the narrative.
3) if the people in the stories are dead - well then you have only left traces that do research in. The truth is difficult to assess.
4) how many points the information passed. It is well known that the information is distorted by number of stages. Think of the outcome of the whispering game.

Rationalization and similar plays many tricks on the memory. As it always is in its own centre, it is common practice to beautify their own role in a process, and present themselves as more central than it actually was.

In a historical and scientific approach is all narrative a result of interpretations and no absolute truth does not exist.

Only the Lord's words to man, through personal revelation, are true. And when you think about them, or bear witness to them interpret even this event, and the story of the personal revelation changed slightly. The cavity is influenced.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:23 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:53 pm
Posts: 1623
This one is priceless:
Quote:
(2) The internet and digital records now make information about the Church available to many who because of language and other limitations have not previously known of this information. This does not mean that such information was hidden by the Church; it was simply not generally available.


We weren't hiding it, we just made it "unavailable".
What a bunch of douche bags. Just when I get calmed down about the church they come up with BS like this.

_________________
It is my province to teach to the Church what the doctrine is. It is your province to echo what I say or to remain silent.
Bruce R. McConkie


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:27 pm 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:52 am
Posts: 7306
I'm not surprised by the disingenuous contents of the letter.

I am surprised a who sent it. Thought he might be better than that.

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:33 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 4986
Willy Law wrote:
We weren't hiding it, we just made it "unavailable".
What a bunch of douche bags. Just when I get calmed down about the church they come up with BS like this.


:lol:

The church really is a dishonest organization -- rotten to the core. Everything about Mormonism is based in lies and deception and their people think they are an honest people but they live by double standards in self righteous holier than thou mindsets.

Mormons are liars -- ALL OF THEM! There is not a single honest Mormon alive. They lie and cover up in order to keep their religion alive when really it should be disbanded.

Paul O

_________________
A fool said, "Say what you like. The figure which Joseph Smith identifies as the "slave" is not an image of Anubis, nor is it functioning as Anubis in the image that is displayed." (zerinus)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:50 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:46 pm
Posts: 1690
Location: Somewhere on the ocean with know-it-all control freak Nephi
I think it is a positive step by the church to at least acknowledge the issue. Of course they could make it all go away by publicly addressing the major issues and state their official position.

"Thus sayeth the Lord"...

1. Book of Abraham.....

2. Polygamy and Polyandry....

3. etc, etc,etc...

Of course they usually put the blame on God by saying that he has not revealed it to them at this time. God has been very quiet lately. I hope he is feeling well.

_________________
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude

Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:55 pm 
Prophet
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:09 am
Posts: 848
Quote:
(1) The Church does not hide historical facts. In fact, it makes every effort to be open and honest about its past and current actions.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

To be fair, the church has opened up more recently, but only because the internet forced them them to do so.

Quote:
(2) The internet and digital records now make information about the Church available to many who because of language and other limitations have not previously known of this information. This does not mean that such information was hidden by the Church; it was simply not generally available.


Which only reinforces my previous point: the Church is only opening up now (to a limited extent) because the internet has forced them to do so.

Quote:
(3) Joseph Smith and the prophets who succeeded him were not wicked or deceiving men. Joseph did not become a ”fallen prophet.” He and all other prophets of this dispensation have human weaknesses. They have often admitted this and the scriptures sometimes confirm that God is not pleased with them. However, they worthily exercised their priesthood keys and led the Church in their time as directed by God through revelation. This is true of President Thomas S. Monson today.


Cool, let's go shopping!

Quote:
(4) Obtaining or regaining a testimony of Joseph Smith as a prophet of God and of the restoration of the gospel through him is always essentially a spiritual quest. Nephi’s reminder to his older brother of the Lord’s words provides a good description of the path each must walk: ”If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in faith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be made known unto you”, (1 Nephi 15:11).


Just remember, go with your gut, not with your head.

Quote:
(5) In working with individual members who are expressing doubts, priesthood leaders should (a) provide the best possible answers to the questions the members are asking, (b) teach the spiritual path each must walk to gain or regain a testimony, helping the members to remember past spiritual witnesses and to avoid contact with evil influences, and (c) emphasize that faith is a conscious choice that each must make.


Translation: Get them to stop visiting sites like Mormonthink.com.

Quote:
(6) As guided by the Spirit, the scriptures, and Handbook 1 (section 6.7.3 material on Apostasy), priesthood leaders may need to take disciplinary action with those members who persist in publicly opposing the Church and its leaders after they have been lovingly worked with and corrected by their bishop or higher authority. Alma’s counsel is important in this regard: ”Now repentance could not come unto men except there were a punishment…” (Alma 42:16).


Hold their feet to the fire and remind them that doubting is a sin. Make sure they know that their choices will affect thousands of lives accross the generations of time so they REALLY feel the guilt.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:57 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:53 pm
Posts: 1623
son of Ishmael wrote:
I think it is a positive step by the church to at least acknowledge the issue. Of course they could make it all go away by publicly addressing the major issues and state their official position.

"Thus sayeth the Lord"...

1. Book of Abraham.....

2. Polygamy and Polyandry....

3. etc, etc,etc...

Of course they usually put the blame on God by saying that he has not revealed it to them at this time. God has been very quiet lately. I hope he is feeling well.


Great point. They are instructing local authorities to do their best in answering the individual's questions. Something they cannot even do themselves. If the prophet of God cannot answer the questions then how is some branch president in the middle of Sweden suppose to answer them?

_________________
It is my province to teach to the Church what the doctrine is. It is your province to echo what I say or to remain silent.
Bruce R. McConkie


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:00 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:44 am
Posts: 3318
Location: Dallas, Texas
Wow. Jensen is one I still had a smidgen of respect for. No more. He's a liar like all the rest. I doubt this "program" he outlines will be effective with the Swedes, who after all are generally well educated and satisfied with a secular life. To be a Mormon in Sweden must be even more of an alienating and marginalizing thing than to be Mormon in America outside the Mormon Corridor.

_________________
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain
"The LDS church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:04 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:26 pm
Posts: 3323
Equality wrote:
Wow. Jensen is one I still had a smidgen of respect for. No more. He's a liar like all the rest. I doubt this "program" he outlines will be effective with the Swedes, who after all are generally well educated and satisfied with a secular life. To be a Mormon in Sweden must be even more of an alienating and marginalizing thing than to be Mormon in America outside the Mormon Corridor.


Put me down as being surprised by Jensen's statements. You really have to sell your soul to be a leader in the Mormon church.

I read an article about how when people are confronted with truth that conflicts with their strongly held beliefs they end up working so hard to rationalize that they end up even more convinced of their beliefs. It says something that the evidence is so strong against Mormonism that such a common defense mechanism isn't enough to save faith in it.

Wonder what they'll do with the temple in Stockholm when it's no longer needed. I hear Walmart is trying to expand into Scandinavia. :lol:

_________________
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:13 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:44 am
Posts: 3318
Location: Dallas, Texas
Bob Loblaw wrote:
Equality wrote:
Wow. Jensen is one I still had a smidgen of respect for. No more. He's a liar like all the rest. I doubt this "program" he outlines will be effective with the Swedes, who after all are generally well educated and satisfied with a secular life. To be a Mormon in Sweden must be even more of an alienating and marginalizing thing than to be Mormon in America outside the Mormon Corridor.


Put me down as being surprised by Jensen's statements. You really have to sell your soul to be a leader in the Mormon church.

I read an article about how when people are confronted with truth that conflicts with their strongly held beliefs they end up working so hard to rationalize that they end up even more convinced of their beliefs. It says something that the evidence is so strong against Mormonism that such a common defense mechanism isn't enough to save faith in it.

Wonder what they'll do with the temple in Stockholm when it's no longer needed. I hear Walmart is trying to expand into Scandinavia. :lol:


Bob, the phenomenon you describe is called cognitive dissonance. A wonderful book on the subject was Leon Festinger's classic "When Prophecy Fails," which details a sociological experiment in the 1950s in which researchers examined a UFO cult (er, excuse me, mainstream religious organization) that was led by a charismatic woman who claimed to be receiving messages from aliens about the impending destruction of the earth. Her followers began proselytizing vigorously in an effort to warn the earth of its coming fate. She prophesied specific dates when these things were to occur. When the date for the expected even came and went without incident, she received a message that the aliens had been merciful, etc. The researchers expected that the failed prophecy would result in a diminution in the faith of the sect's adherents. The oppositie occurred among many in the group--they became more committed and they rationalized the failed prophecy by employing some impressive mental gymnastics. I believe Festinger coined the term "cognitive dissonance" (though I may be wrong about that) to describe this phenomenon.

_________________
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain
"The LDS church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:14 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:46 pm
Posts: 1690
Location: Somewhere on the ocean with know-it-all control freak Nephi
(3) Joseph Smith and the prophets who succeeded him were not wicked or deceiving men. Joseph did not become a ”fallen prophet.” He and all other prophets of this dispensation have human weaknesses. They have often admitted this and the scriptures sometimes confirm that God is not pleased with them. However, they worthily exercised their priesthood keys and led the Church in their time as directed by God through revelation. This is true of President Thomas S. Monson today.

“He and all other prophets of this dispensation have human weaknesses…”

Sure, I will buy that. Nobody is perfect. So what is an appropriate weakness for a prophet of God?

If Joseph did not become a “fallen prophet” were his actions with other men’s wives and underage girls fully approved of by God or were they just normal weaknesses?

_________________
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude

Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:18 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:26 pm
Posts: 3323
Equality wrote:
Bob, the phenomenon you describe is called cognitive dissonance. A wonderful book on the subject was Leon Festinger's classic "When Prophecy Fails," which details a sociological experiment in the 1950s in which researchers examined a UFO cult (er, excuse me, mainstream religious organization) that was led by a charismatic woman who claimed to be receiving messages from aliens about the impending destruction of the earth. Her followers began proselytizing vigorously in an effort to warn the earth of its coming fate. She prophesied specific dates when these things were to occur. When the date for the expected even came and went without incident, she received a message that the aliens had been merciful, etc. The researchers expected that the failed prophecy would result in a diminution in the faith of the sect's adherents. The oppositie occurred among many in the group--they became more committed and they rationalized the failed prophecy by employing some impressive mental gymnastics. I believe Festinger coined the term "cognitive dissonance" (though I may be wrong about that) to describe this phenomenon.


I have heard of that. It's just interesting that the mental gymnastics aren't enough to save people's faith in Mormonism.

_________________
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:16 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:45 am
Posts: 8357
Location: somewhere else
Equality wrote:
To be a Mormon in Sweden must be even more of an alienating and marginalizing thing than to be Mormon in America outside the Mormon Corridor.


Not to mention the delicious, delicious Swedish coffee...

_________________
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:10 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 17820
Location: Koloburbia
If our Swedish Brethren pray hard enough and receive the gift of the remote electrodes like they implant at BYU, this tide of apostasy will be stilled by the estuary of acceptance.

_________________
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:18 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:48 pm
Posts: 18536
A summary history of the church in Sweden:

http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/58658/Country-information-Sweden.html

_________________
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
A lesson on 'Faggotry' for Kevin Graham; a legitimately descriptive and even positive term used by homosexuals themselves.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:19 pm 
High Priest
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:08 am
Posts: 394
Location: Kobol
While I absolutely agree with those of you who have pointed out the inadequacy of this response regarding actually providing answers, I do think it is a positive step in one respect. There are multiple instances in there where leaders are instructed to show love and understanding, and to respect people's agency. This is a far cry from the "call them to repentance" response that many have experienced from their leaders. If this approach does filter out through the whole church, it will result in much less pain for those experiencing faith crises as well as their loved ones.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:29 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:57 pm
Posts: 6586
Location: Palm Tree Paradise (minus a few palm trees)
Cylon wrote:
While I absolutely agree with those of you who have pointed out the inadequacy of this response regarding actually providing answers, I do think it is a positive step in one respect. There are multiple instances in there where leaders are instructed to show love and understanding, and to respect people's agency. This is a far cry from the "call them to repentance" response that many have experienced from their leaders. If this approach does filter out through the whole church, it will result in much less pain for those experiencing faith crises as well as their loved ones.

Ceylon,

I agree with you on this. Perhaps this could also be taken as evidence of the same general change in approach from the top that lead to the shake-up at MI.

At the end of the day though, a massive fraud is a massive fraud. When the townsfolk finally reach for their pitchforks, it usually only a matter of time.

_________________
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Church responds to apostasy in Sweden - 'The Swedish Res
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:30 pm 
Brother of Jesus
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 2:09 am
Posts: 54
Fame and fortune to the first poster to make a Mormon-related IKEA joke.

Skratta!

\m/

_________________
But Satan now is wiser than of yore, and tempts by making rich, not making poor ~Alexander Pope
Let's go shopping! ~Thomas S. Monson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Analytics, DonBradley, Fence Sitter, Google [Bot], Maureen, Stem, Yahoo [Bot] and 24 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group