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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:23 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
LDSToronto wrote:
DCP's an attention-whore. Seems it finally bit him on the ass.

H>


In my view that email may have been written with the understanding that it would probably be leaked to the online world. Look at the great care that was taken to protect the identities of wealthy donors whom both Bradford and Peterson obviously know.


So, in a way, we are just being helpful!

H.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:25 am 
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LDSToronto wrote:
So, in a way, we are just being helpful!

H.


Hmmm... I suppose it is possible.

You do see a righteously indignant Dr. Peterson going out with both barrels blazing.

He remains convinced that he was doing the right thing.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:29 am 
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Wow. This is quite a development. I had been under the impression that Scratch's secret informant was a closet apostate now I suspect the "leaks" were a big powerplay to wrest control away from the Old Guard of apologists at the Maxwell Institute.

I think they're in for a long search to try to replace Dan. I can't see a academic like Bushman in the role, the Gen X generation of LDS scholars are probably way too liberal for the donor base. I predict it will be ...... Rod Meldrum or John Dehlin. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:32 am 
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Phaedrus Utah wrote:
Wow. This is quite a development. I had been under the impression that Scratch's secret informant was a closet apostate now I suspect the "leaks" were a big powerplay to wrest control away from the Old Guard of apologists at the Maxwell Institute.

I think they're in for a long search to try to replace Dan. I can't see a academic like Bushman in the role, the Gen X generation of LDS scholars are probably way too liberal for the donor base. I predict it will be ...... Rod Meldrum or John Dehlin. ;-)

Phaedrus


or ...Don Bradley? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:35 am 
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gramps wrote:
or ...Don Bradley? ;)


While that would be fabulous, he does not yet possess a graduate degree. I would imagine the job will go to a Ph.D. with some publication experience under his belt. It will most likely be someone already at BYU.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:37 am 
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It will be replaced by the journal at Claremont. The hiatus will morph into something not. But I'm not an insider and don't know.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:40 am 
Kishkumen wrote:
gramps wrote:
or ...Don Bradley? ;)


While that would be fabulous, he does not yet possess a graduate degree. I would imagine the job will go to a Ph.D. with some publication experience under his belt. It will most likely be someone already at BYU.

I wonder if David Bokyvoy would be considered.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:41 am 
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
It will be replaced by the journal at Claremont. The hiatus will morph into something not. But I'm not an insider and don't know.


Replaced in what sense, Bot? You don't think BYU wants to compete in the academic Mormon Studies arena by having its own serious journal devoted to the subject?


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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:43 am 
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liz3564 wrote:
I wonder if David Bokyvoy would be considered.


Possible, but unlikely. It is too delicious a plum to give to a young scholar. To remake the Review as a serious Mormon Studies publication would be a real feather in one's career cap, at BYU.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:02 am 
Kishkumen wrote:
liz3564 wrote:
I wonder if David Bokyvoy would be considered.


Possible, but unlikely. It is too delicious a plum to give to a young scholar. To remake the Review as a serious Mormon Studies publication would be a real feather in one's career cap, at BYU.

However, I think that the choice would make perfect sense if they are interested in going in a new direction. I certainly hope that he is inolved in any case.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:04 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Yahoo Bot wrote:
It will be replaced by the journal at Claremont. The hiatus will morph into something not. But I'm not an insider and don't know.


Replaced in what sense, Bot? You don't think BYU wants to compete in the academic Mormon Studies arena by having its own serious journal devoted to the subject?


There just isn't a place at BYU for a Mormon Studies Review. You already have BYU Studies (Welch, the editor), and Journal of Book of Mormon Studies, the slick glossy. BYU Studies is the place to publish a rigorous peer-reviewed piece, but even so anything moderately critical of the Church's past wouldn't be published there.

What makes FARMS Review so unique is that it invited the publication of hacks like me, those out of the mainstream of the ivory tower. Lots of variety in quality. It is peer reviewed, but in its own peer way.

To make it a general Mormon Studies Review with polite articles is to be the same as BYU Studies. Why would donors contribute to that.

FAIR will morph into something more professional and slick (I mean that in an aesthetic sense) to fill the evolutionary gap. This is a good development for FAIR, which will attract more rigorous writers but who are not real hardcore academics willing to burnish their resume. The new Claremont review will attract those of the Bushman, Quinn and Givens quality, although Quinn is over the hill.

But, again, I could be speaking out of my read end. I don't know. I am way out of the mainstream.


Last edited by Yahoo Bot on Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:05 am 
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Bradford wrote:
(refering to DCP) someone else, someone working in the mainstream of Mormon studies,

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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:06 am 
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I give dannyboy 5 minutes before he is hocking ganked artifacts out of the back of a soon to be repossessed minivan somewhere in Haifa. He can learn the trade from other disgraced BYU professors currently skulking around the holy land straining really hard to find bountiful.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:34 am 
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
BYU Studies is the place to publish a rigorous peer-reviewed piece, but even so anything moderately critical of the Church's past wouldn't be published there.

What makes FARMS Review so unique is that it invited the publication of hacks like me, those out of the mainstream of the ivory tower. Lots of variety in quality. It is peer reviewed, but in its own peer way.

To make it a general Mormon Studies Review with polite articles is to be the same as BYU Studies. Why would donors contribute to that.

It hasn't been a good 5 years for big money Mormons that have donated to fund enterprises seeking to validate their beliefs of ever-narrowing credibility (such as to the Review) and the state imposition of their beliefs (Prop 8). When you take the Hinckley (NOM) administration followed by the Monson (cupcake) one into account, it is not a comfortable era for firebrand TBMs like DCP.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:52 am 
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Quote:
What makes FARMS Review so unique is that it invited the publication of hacks like me, those out of the mainstream of the ivory tower. Lots of variety in quality. It is peer reviewed, but in its own peer way.

To make it a general Mormon Studies Review with polite articles is to be the same as BYU Studies. Why would donors contribute to that.

FAIR will morph into something more professional and slick (I mean that in an aesthetic sense) to fill the evolutionary gap. This is a good development for FAIR, which will attract more rigorous writers but who are not real hardcore academics willing to burnish their resume. The new Claremont review will attract those of the Bushman, Quinn and Givens quality, although Quinn is over the hill.


It is interesting that, after reading Dan's email and Bob's comments, they seem to be conceding a few things:

1) A DCP led Review was unique, precisely because it went after people in an non-scholarly way. This is quite the opposite of what Dan has been willing to concede in public. In fact, he has rejected it out of hand every time someone tries to tell him this.

2) Dan has served as an apologetic lobbyist who goes around targeting wealthy Mormons, trying to cull wealth from them so he can continue to produce these nonscholarly hit pieces. There is no honor is that responsibility, and in fact I think it would be quite interesting to know what it is exactly Dan is telling these people to convince them to hand over to him their money. Bob and Dan are convinced that wealthy Mormons are more interested in retribution than scholarship.

3) Both Dan and Bob appear confident that what Mormons really want to read, isn't scholarship on the academic level. What they really want to read is attack jobs written by "hacks" like him.

4) Bob tends to think of bonafide scholarship as boring. Something to yawn at.

5) Dan is very much a vindictive person. Just look at the way he went after Bradford with this ghettoesque "I'm gonna get you back sucka" response, by suggesting his resignation is going to hurt the organization's ability to raise funding.

Can you imagine the agony Dan is going through right now as he reads these threads, knowing perfectly well that his email has been compromised by one of his eighteen recipients?


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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:57 am 
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
But, again, I could be speaking out of my read end. I don't know. I am way out of the mainstream.


Your analysis is good, but I think you overestimate the rationality of the decision in business terms and underestimate internal competition. So what if there is a BYU Studies? It may be the time for its eclipse by a new voice. Competition for these things is very intense at the BYU, and it is often motivated by the best of intentions. I bet each party involved views themselves as doing the right thing for the Kingdom. Not everyone gets such a golden opportunity to make a large and unique contribution of this kind.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:01 am 
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Kevin Graham wrote:

Can you imagine the agony Dan is going through right now as he reads these threads, knowing perfectly well that his email has been compromised by one of his eighteen recipients?



What I imagine will happen is that Dan will paint himself as the victim of a witch hunt and continue to portray himself as misunderstood by his enemies.

I am not sure it is all agony for Dan as, above all, he seems to embrace any form of attention.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:10 am 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
Kevin Graham wrote:

Can you imagine the agony Dan is going through right now as he reads these threads, knowing perfectly well that his email has been compromised by one of his eighteen recipients?



What I imagine will happen is that Dan will paint himself as the victim of a witch hunt and continue to portray himself as misunderstood by his enemies.

I am not sure it is all agony for Dan as, above all, he seems to embrace any form of attention.


He is already doing his usual victim thing, claiming we're going to be gloating in his humiliation for years to come. Why is he so worried about what a bunch of evil apostates think about him?

Besides, I don't think anyone here is doing that at all.

It just happens to be a shocking development and naturally, we're going to want to get to the bottom of it. If true, it vindicates our criticisms of his scholarship on a number of levels. Who wouldn't want to know if their criticisms have been validated, especially of someone who regularly mocks us in venues where we're not permitted to respond?


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 Post subject: Re: Where the apologists went wrong
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:32 am 
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Tobin wrote:
And if people are really interested in the Mormonism, they can speak to God about it. This has always been the Mormon position and has worked just fine so far.


But has not worked. It never worked for you or anyone else. You had to become an ex-Mormon atheist before you thought God showed up. :eek:

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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:35 am 
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Mortal Man wrote:
Is it true that Dan is taking a third of the hosts of the MI with him?


Sorry to derail this most fascinating thread, but seriously.

That got a loud LOL from me.

Funny stuff Mortal Man...


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 Post subject: Re: DCP Responds to Getting "Fired" from the Review
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:40 am 
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Mike Reed wrote:
Kishkumen wrote:

To what end? Is the Mormon Stories conference a real attention grabber? I mean, other than the apologists throwing a hissy fit over it, what is the big deal in your view?

Not trying to be hostile, I guess I just don't see the connection.

I hardly notice Mormon Stories outside of the podcast.

I was speaking more in regards to disruption within the conference. Just throwing the idea out there. I don't know, of course. Hopefully we can know the authenticity of the email soon. Thx.


Sorry about the late response to this, but I was at the Mormon Stories conference yesterday, and no one mentioned it at all. As someone already posted, John Dehlin did link this thread on his Facebook page (that's how I found it) but that was after the conference was over.


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