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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:06 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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gdemetz wrote:
So Darth, you are telling me that you believe the one apostate, against all of the other witnesses?! I take it that you are a member of some offshoot cult of the LDS which has no hope of filling the whole earth as Daniel prophesied, am I correct?


So, gdemetz, I see that your testimony of the truthfulness of the LDS Church is based on a fallacious appeal to numbers. If you read An Address to All Believers in Christ, you will find that David Whitmer, who had authority from God, explains that the choice seer prophesied in the Book of Mormon is not Joseph Smith. It is a future prophet to arise from the Lamanites.

All of the other Three Witnesses were apostate, too, by the way. But only from your errant point of view as a follower of Joseph Smith. You have made a compelling case for why David Whitmer should be believed, but given no reason to disbelieve him about receiving authority from God apart from your circular reasoning. "David Whitmer was apostate because the Church is true!!!" is circular reasoning.

Therefore, just as he is a witness that the Book of Mormon is true, David Whitmer is a witness that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet.

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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:15 pm 
God

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Your logic is very faulty, Darth! Joseph Smith restored the true church of Jesus Christ which Daniel prophesied would never be destroyed or LEFT TO OTHER PEOPLE (and certainly not apostates or apostate groups who have been deceived into believing that their little apostate cults which teach all kind of heresies will takeover and fill the whole earth! The little stone is growing and will fill the whole earth. Be careful and don't let it roll over you and crush you!


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:21 pm 
God
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Darth J wrote:

So, gdemetz, I see that your testimony of the truthfulness of the LDS Church is based on a fallacious appeal to numbers. If you read An Address to All Believers in Christ, you will find that David Whitmer, who had authority from God, explains that the choice seer prophesied in the Book of Mormon is not Joseph Smith. It is a future prophet to arise from the Lamanites.

All of the other Three Witnesses were apostate, too, by the way. But only from your errant point of view as a follower of Joseph Smith. You have made a compelling case for why David Whitmer should be believed, but given no reason to disbelieve him about receiving authority from God apart from your circular reasoning. "David Whitmer was apostate because the Church is true!!!" is circular reasoning.

Therefore, just as he is a witness that the Book of Mormon is true, David Whitmer is a witness that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet.


Darth, your argument would be much more pursuasive with more exclamation points!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:29 pm 
God

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Yea, Screech, I get frustrated sometimes when I see things that are not sensible, such as believing one traitor over hundreds of good witnesses with good character, not to mention that if what he were saying were true, then that would invalidate the prophesy of Daniel chapter 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:31 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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gdemetz wrote:
Your logic is very faulty, Darth! Joseph Smith restored the true church of Jesus Christ which Daniel prophesied would never be destroyed or LEFT TO OTHER PEOPLE (and certainly not apostates or apostate groups who have been deceived into believing that their little apostate cults which teach all kind of heresies will takeover and fill the whole earth! The little stone is growing and will fill the whole earth. Be careful and don't let it roll over you and crush you!


That of course being the self-serving interpretation of things given by Joseph Smith. But I don't trust apostates, and Joseph Smith became apostate. David Whitmer is a powerful witness of the reality of Joseph Smith's apostasy. To the end of his life, David Whitmer never denied that he had received authority from God, nor denied that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet.

Gdemetz, I bear you my solemn witness, that I know that Joseph Smith was apostate. If you will study it out and pray with a sincere heart, you also can know by the power of the Holy Ghost that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet who led many people astray.

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And the life of the ebony clock went out with that of the last of the gay. And the flames of the tripods expired. And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all.


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:31 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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gdemetz wrote:
Yea, Screech, I get frustrated sometimes when I see things that are not sensible, such as believing one traitor over hundreds of good witnesses with good character, not to mention that if what he were saying were true, then that would invalidate the prophesy of Daniel chapter 2.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

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And the life of the ebony clock went out with that of the last of the gay. And the flames of the tripods expired. And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all.


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:48 pm 
God
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gdemetz wrote:
You guys are only making assumptions to agree with what you want to believe! I repeat, do you know exactly when David received that "revelation" from God telling him to separate?! If you really know what you are talking about, then just give me the date of the receipt of that "revelation"!

Two people have asked what the date was for the restoration of the Melchizidek Priesthood, gdmetz, and one asked for the date for the First Vision. Do you not see the irony in your demanding a date for the revelation claimed by David Whitmer while refusing to provide the same for the Melchizidek Priesthood restoration or First Vision? It's by consistently, relentlessly refusing to answer basic questions directly and consistently, relentlessly seeking to apply a double standard to your own truth claims that you lose all credibility with sane, reasonable people. Put up or shut up, gdmetz.

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"The lds church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo
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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:36 am 
God

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Equality wrote:
Put up or shut up, gdmetz.


WARNING: SPOILER ALERT


Gdemetz will do neither...

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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:11 am 
God

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Hello Equality?! The date was very relevant in that instance since the anti's were trying to make it appear that that alleged revelation was also a part of many more alleged revelations which were nothing more than apostate ramblings!


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:41 am 
God

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gdemetz wrote:
Hello Equality?! The date was very relevant in that instance since the anti's were trying to make it appear that that alleged revelation was also a part of many more alleged revelations which were nothing more than apostate ramblings!


No date.
I hate to say I told you so...but...

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:24 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
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Yea, well life's hard when you're an anti.


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:31 pm 
God

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gdemetz wrote:
Yea, well life's hard when you're an anti.


Actually not.

More disposable income, more leisure time, less stress, less guilt, less intellectual dishonesty....plus, if one has a temple marriage one still gets into the Celestial Kingdom even if you become an anti!

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:14 pm 
God

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If you think that Drifting, you are really misled!


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:16 am 
God

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gdemetz wrote:
If you think that Drifting, you are really misled!


D&C 132:26
You'll be seeing me in the CK...well...providing you make it that is...

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:20 am 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
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I hope so Drifting!


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:22 am 
God

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gdemetz wrote:
I hope so Drifting!


Get a temple marriage (when you're old enough) and then work hard to avoid shedding innocent blood. If you can manage that....you're in!

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:24 am 
God

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I don't believe that it is that simple. Did you read Jo's post regarding that?


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:28 am 
God

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gdemetz wrote:
I don't believe that it is that simple. Did you read Jo's post regarding that?


Should I take Jo's interpretation or the words of the actual scripture produced by God speaking directly to Joseph Smith the Prophet?

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:30 am 
God

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I think many have misinterpreted that passage.


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:36 am 
God

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gdemetz wrote:
I think many have misinterpreted that passage.


Including Jo perhaps...

How can one misinterpret words given to the Prophet directly from God and written down in black and white in plain English?

You must also bear in mind that that scripture has been witnessed to be true by the Holy Ghost to most members.

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Joseph Smith wrote witnesses statement
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:38 am 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
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That's the problem. I don't think it was written so plainly.


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