Why me Have you heard the voice of God, have you seen the plates through the power of God. And what is this God or angel that you know is the same per the Book of Mormon witness statement. You have not had the same experiences that is claimed by those witnesses.
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They just could not deny what they experienced.

And.... What is the point? I see no problem with the D&C section. They saw the plates as stated but Martin had a problem with faith but later he also had his experience. And it it this experience that they could not deny.

Yea, they saw the plates and "handled" them. That sounds pretty physical to me.

]So you don't think it makes any difference if Joseph Smith, 3 witnesses, 8 witnesses saw the plates with

their positivistic, empirical, naturalistic, non-metaphysical eyes

or

they only saw them with their spiritual, metaphysical, supernatural eyes?[/color]

You will need to read the two statements. The D&C section you listed fits well with the three witness statement. All the witnesses were not exactly immune to questions and answers throughout their lives about their experiences. They did not have a written response in their pocket. They explained the process as they remembered it. As I said before, there is no difference with spiritual eyes or just plain eyes. They had a spiritual experience which they never denied. They never contradicted their statement in the book of mormon and all knew that the statement was there. Nor did they ask for this statement to be removed.

spiritual eyes: a spiritual experience seen with the eyes. Perfectly okay to decribe it this way at times.

How did Joseph Smith see the plates?

Could they have been taken to an assayer, had one been so inclined, and been analysed?[/color]

He was shown where the plates were by an angel and he dug them up. He handled the plates, hid the plates, ran though the woods with the plates, put the plates on a wagon and drove the plates around and around.

Joseph first inclination was to sell the plates since he saw dollars to be made. He was punished and saw the light about the plates. Thus it all began.

It wasn't god purpose to take the plates to an assayer.

I wonder if, at some point, Why Me or gdemetz will be able to consider that the so-called "Book of Mormon witnesses" gave inconsistent statements about what they claimed to have experienced.

Or one might ask why the witnesses needed to sincerely believe in Joseph Smith's story before they would be allowed to see the plates.

What is there to sensibly discuss? If there were eleven thousand witnesses, you guys would just try to look at all their statements and grasp for straws with the hope that you could console yourselves if you could find some inconsistencies among the eleven thousand witnesses! Maybe you guys could help Sandusky out. There are about eleven witnesses against him also!

I wonder if, at some point, Why Me or gdemetz will be able to consider that the so-called "Book of Mormon witnesses" gave inconsistent statements about what they claimed to have experienced.

But let's turn your question around, gdemetz. For how long, and in how many places, would we have to look for evidence of the Nephite or Jaredite civilizations and not find it before you would be willing to consider that neither of these civilizations ever existed?

But it looks like gmetz and why me don't want to discuss.

[/color]

What do you think the phrase "I saw them with spiritual eyes" means?

What do you think the phrase "I saw them with spiritual eyes" means?

Because Oliver Cowdery died in 1850 at age 43 and Martin Harris died in 1875 at age 91, David Whitmer was the only survivor of the Three Witnesses for 13 years. At Richmond, Missouri, he sometimes received several inquirers daily asking about his connection to the Book of Mormon, including Mormon missionaries who were traveling from Utah to the eastern United States and Europe. Despite his hostility toward the LDS Church, Whitmer always stood by his claim that he had actually seen the Golden Plates.[30]

Nevertheless, his testimonies were recorded differently from one retelling to another.[31] Recounting the vision to Orson Pratt in 1878, Whitmer claimed to have seen not only the Golden Plates but the "Brass Plates, the plates containing the record of the wickedness of the people of the world....the sword of Laban, the Directors (i.e. the ball which Lehi had) and the Interpreters. I saw them just as plain as I see this bed...."[32]

In 1880, John Murphy interviewed Whitmer and later published an account suggesting that perhaps Whitmer's experience was a "delusion or perhaps a cunning scheme." Murphy's account said that Whitmer had not been able to describe the appearance of an angel and had likened Whitmer's experience to the "impressions as the quaker [receives] when the spirit moves, or as a good Methodist in giving a happy experience."[33] Whitmer responded by publishing A Proclamation, reaffirming his testimony and saying,

"It having been represented by one John Murphy, of Polo, Caldwell County, Mo., that I, in a conversation with him last summer, denied my testimony as one of the three witnesses to the BOOK OF MORMON. To the end, therefore, that he may understand me now, if he did not then; and that the world may know the truth, I wish now, standing as it were, in the very sunset of life, and in the fear of God, once for all to make this public statement: That I have never at any time denied that testimony or any part thereof, which has so long since been published with that Book, as one of the three witnesses. Those who know me best, well know that I have always adhered to that testimony. And that no man may be misled or doubt my present views in regard to the same, I do again affirm the truth of all of my statements, as then made and published. He that hath an ear to hear, let him hear; it was no delusion!"[34]

To the Proclamation Whitmer attached an affidavit attesting to his honesty and standing in the community.[35] Whitmer ordered that his testimony to the Book of Mormon be placed on his tombstone.[36]