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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:30 pm 
CTR B
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Just another Dr. Peterson butt sniffer come to do battle in the absence of Heavy D the one hit and run away wonder. What do you "get" by coming over here to start a board war? A hand job by Nemisis maybe?


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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:56 pm 
God
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Dear god. This is what I come home to after a perfectly lovely day squiring justme around Brooklyn.

I know it can never be, be sometimes I want to say: EAllusion marry me. At the same time I also want to extend the hand of marital fellowship to California Kid. Oh, hell, Wilma, I'm game if you are!

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From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."


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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:14 pm 
Has More Degrees Than Droopy
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Wade should fix his avatar for starters.

Wilma Fingerdoo as well.

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Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.


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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:55 pm 
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huckelberry wrote:

Wade, this thread is a bit long on personal complaints. Sorry. But people are a bit uncomfortable with your overture.


I think that people feel emotionally threatened that they could believe again because they wish to believe again. Because the church has not been proven true or false, one's decision is always based on conjecture and faith. And because of this, the people making a 'church is false' premise could be wrong and they know it. And this is where the toxicity of their posts come in.

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We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Blixa wrote:
Dear god. This is what I come home to after a perfectly lovely day squiring justme around Brooklyn.



Isn't brooklyn lovely? It has really changed during the last two decades and for the better. The second hand bookshops are unique with special little finds for book lovers.

It also now has the hapless Nets. Unfortunately the Italian tourist was shot near their new home, chasing a thug who stole his daughter property. Still gotta be careful in brooklyn.

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I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith


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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:21 pm 
God
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Quote:
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??? LOL!

The more I learn about Ernest Wilkinson, the more I feel like I've been spattered with grease. The man makes me want to wash my hands with dish soap. In my opinion, the theft of his phantasmagoric pants was cosmic justice well-deserved.

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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:32 pm 
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CaliforniaKid wrote:
Quote:
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??? LOL!

The more I learn about Ernest Wilkinson, the more I feel like I've been spattered with grease. The man makes me want to wash my hands with dish soap. In my opinion, the theft of his phantasmagoric pants was cosmic justice well-deserved.


Too late to give you back story on that, but if you're still working in Provo you can maybe help me fill out some of the edges of that diary entry...

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From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."


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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:34 pm 
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Blixa wrote:
Too late to give you back story on that, but if you're still working in Provo you can maybe help me fill out some of the edges of that diary entry...

I'm still here. I assume it's at BYU. Send me what you've got and what you need, and I'll see what I can do.

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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:35 pm 
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why me wrote:
Because the church has not been proven true or false, one's decision is always based on conjecture and faith.



It actually has regardless of how many times you want to assert otherwise, but I do understand that many cannot accept this mentally.

Quote:
And because of this, the people making a 'church is false' premise could be wrong and they know it. And this is where the toxicity of their posts come in.


The toxicity comes from posters like yourself that attack others even if they don't use swear words. Your attack on M & G is a classic example. You also don't provide any substance here, but just assert things that most including apologists can see make no sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:38 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
You are a worm, Wade. But you're gay and need to be kissed by a man. Come to Dallas and I'll kiss you for the hell of it.



I too think Wade is a worm and gay, a gay worm. I hope he takes you up on your generous offer.

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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:07 pm 
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Bond James Bond wrote:
Wade should fix his avatar for starters.

Wilma Fingerdoo as well.


Sorry about my avatar. I am posting from an I-pad and I haven't figured out how to add one yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:22 pm 
Has More Degrees Than Droopy
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Wilma Fingerdoo wrote:
Bond James Bond wrote:
Wade should fix his avatar for starters.

Wilma Fingerdoo as well.


Sorry about my avatar. I am posting from an I-pad and I haven't figured out how to add one yet.


You're not the only one. Tons of posters had their avatars fried when they did the last board upgrade.

_________________
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.


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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:11 pm 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
Posts: 7306
wenglund wrote:
In a thread on the other board, the much beloved Kevin Graham said something along the line that he would really like to have faith. Assuming his stated desire is genuine, and given that he has evidently been banned from the other board, I have decided to come here to see if I can help him with his unbelief.

To be clear, I have no other interest here than that. For Kevin's sake, I am making this one exception to my self-banning at this board, and will only be responding to relevant posts to this thread.

At the outset I think it wise to first make sure whether Kevin would really like to have faith in God and the restored gospel of Christ, and whether he is willing and ready to have his mind and heart opened once again to spiritual growth. Are you?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Having faith in God and having faith in the restored Gospel (Mormonsm) are, for most people, two entirely separate things. Are you happy to treat them separately?

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:53 am 
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wenglund wrote:
In a thread on the other board, the much beloved Kevin Graham said something along the line that he would really like to have faith. Assuming his stated desire is genuine, and given that he has evidently been banned from the other board, I have decided to come here to see if I can help him with his unbelief.

To be clear, I have no other interest here than that. For Kevin's sake, I am making this one exception to my self-banning at this board, and will only be responding to relevant posts to this thread.

At the outset I think it wise to first make sure whether Kevin would really like to have faith in God and the restored gospel of Christ, and whether he is willing and ready to have his mind and heart opened once again to spiritual growth. Are you?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


It always amuses me when those who have flunked the test of reason, and for whom reason has not worked, think they understand reason better than those who continue to pass the tests of reason and for whom reason has worked.

Up is down, and down is up--speaking of what doesn't work.


Thanks, -Buffalo P. Diddle

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Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:01 am 
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wenglund wrote:
CaliforniaKid wrote:
The problem with this, Wade, is that Kevin doesn't just want to believe in the Church. He wants to believe in the Church without a bunch of cognitive dissonance. He wants to be able to reconcile belief in the Church with his higher and more important commitments to science, rationality, and non-contradiction. I'm afraid you won't be able to help him with that, no matter how much preaching about humility you do.


Actually, smarter people than Kevin or I, who have been as committed to science and rationality and non-contradiction, have been able to deal with a broad range of cognitive dissonance in healthy and edifying ways that not only allowed for growth in spiritual faith, but enhanced growth in the same.

In short, there are viable solutions to your perceived problem.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


argumentum ad verecundiam

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Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:21 am 
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Having faith in religious claims that are unproven is a dangerous venture. It leads one down an endless trail of never finding the promised pot of gold. Having faith as directed by the Book of Mormon is a practice given to those who join cults and give everything they have while wearing blindfolds and interpreting warm fuzzy feelings and warmth in the heart as magical manifestations from God.

Wade, take your faith and shove it. And take the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 and shove them too.

Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:25 am 
God
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Shulem wrote:
wenglund wrote:
Great! After a number of flailing and counter-productive posts from you over three pages of this thread, it is nice to see you finally decide to tune out.

Once the interfering noise from you subsides, there may be a better chance of productivity, be it ever so slim.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


You want to save Kevin and I want to save you. Come to Dallas and meet me. I'll kiss you and take you to a gay bar. Then, you can go back to Utah and start a new life.

:biggrin:

Have faith, Wade. It will all work out.

Paul O


I'd watch this on Pay Per View!

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Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:28 am 
God
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why me wrote:
huckelberry wrote:

Wade, this thread is a bit long on personal complaints. Sorry. But people are a bit uncomfortable with your overture.


I think that people feel emotionally threatened that they could believe again because they wish to believe again. Because the church has not been proven true or false, one's decision is always based on conjecture and faith. And because of this, the people making a 'church is false' premise could be wrong and they know it. And this is where the toxicity of their posts come in.


It's been proven false, Whyme.

_________________
Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:30 am 
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Buffalo wrote:
I'd watch this on Pay Per View!


I would too. Just imagine Wade-boy telling us how it is that Anubis is only a slave as shown in Facsimile No. 3 and attempting to approach it on a scholarly level. Heck, not even John Gee can do that little trick!

Yes, I'm sure that Kevin Graham's unbelief in Mormonsim will be cured once Wade-boy explains the problem of Anubis appearing on the scene instead of the slave that Joseph Smith translated. But since Joseph Smith was a true prophet we must confess that the Egyptians got it wrong and the ancient artist who drew the original and penned the writing was confused. Thank goodness Mormonism is here to tell us the truth about Egyptology.

Baaa. Baaaaa. Baaaa.

Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:37 am 
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Buffalo wrote:
It's been proven false, Whyme.


Perhaps whyme can explain how an Egyptian god is nothing but a slave according to the translator and seer, Joseph Smith. That would help Kevin regain faith in the Book of Abraham. Hell, it might even help me too! And it would prove the church is true because it would prove that Joseph Smith really could translate using divine means! But on the other hand . . . .

Figure 6
Olimlah, a slave belonging to the prince.

Image

Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: Helping Kevin Graham's Unbelief
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:42 am 
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I am still waiting for Kevin to show up and declare his interest or disinterest.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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"Why should I care about being consistent?" --Mister Scratch (MD, '08)


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