It is currently Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:16 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 254 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 13  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:10 am 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
First of all, let me state that the reasons that I am writing this are twofold. The first is to show the beauty of non-man made, revealed religion, and the second is to try and dispel the myths associated with the athansian creed. The omnipresent entity in the universe is not any of the Godhead, but the light of Christ which is imminently connected to the Godhead. The vast "seas" of intelligences in the matter throughout the universe make up what is termed the light of Christ. As D&C 88 states, it is in all things, and it is, in fact, the power of God itself. Satan coveted this power, which was God's honor (see D&C 29) given by all these intelligences which sustain and support Him, not by force, but by their free will. This is how miracles are performed by natural law. These intelligences in the matter will obey God and move mountains at His command.This is the power Satan coveted. Furthermore, all those who "have been cleansed from sin every whit," as the BofM states, and have the priesthood authority from God, can also be delegated this power. THe BofM also states truly that if God were not just then He would cease to be God. Why? Because all these intelligences which make up the light of Christ would no longer support an unjust God, and His power would dissolve. Of course, I am confident that will never happen! Now I would like to ask a question. What man made religion could come up with such glorious truths?!?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:29 am 
Prophet
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:27 pm
Posts: 852
Location: The Underworld
gdemetz wrote:
Now I would like to ask a question. What man made religion could come up with such glorious truths?!?


Mormonism

_________________
I'm the apostate your bishop warned you about.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:41 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 6:40 pm
Posts: 4340
Location: What does the fox say?
gdemetz wrote:
First of all, let me state that the reasons that I am writing this are twofold. The first is to show the beauty of non-man made, revealed religion.....


Which religion is that?

As a mormon you believe that all non mormon religions are not true, hence man made.

You then believe the following:

Joseph Smith wrote:
I will go back to the beginning before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth, for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why He interferes with the affairs of man.

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible,—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with Him, as one man talks and communes with another.


So mormonism is man made. Albeit in that belief, an exalted man.

Ergo:
All religion is man made.

You are wrong in your basic premise, and fail to show the beauty of a non man made religion.

Looking beyond this, in facing mormon doctrine all that exists is a wasteland of confusion and contradiction. No beauty of a "revealed" religion...... God could not be that incompetent.

Example:
(Paraphrasing) The blacks will never hold the priesthood till after all worthy non blacks receive it (after the millennium) as they were less valiant in the pre-existence.

As compared to the recent President Newsroom release of "we don't know nuttin".

Where is the beauty in the glaring contradiction? There are dozens of more glaring contradictions of a similar magnitude.

Again, surely god is not that incompetent.

_________________
The ultimate action of a warrior, is to put down his sword.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:42 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:57 pm
Posts: 10809
Location: Ithaca
gdemetz wrote:
What man made religion could come up with such glorious truths?!?


What is a God-made religion? What are you implying about mankind? They are too stupid to dream up wonderful, amazing, and dreadful ideas?

_________________
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:51 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:33 pm
Posts: 12064
Location: Kli-flos-is-es
gdemetz wrote:
First of all, let me state that the reasons that I am writing this are twofold. The first is to show the beauty of non-man made, revealed religion, and the second is to try and dispel the myths associated with the athansian creed. The omnipresent entity in the universe is not any of the Godhead, but the light of Christ which is imminently connected to the Godhead. The vast "seas" of intelligences in the matter throughout the universe make up what is termed the light of Christ. As D&C 88 states, it is in all things, and it is, in fact, the power of God itself. Satan coveted this power, which was God's honor (see D&C 29) given by all these intelligences which sustain and support Him, not by force, but by their free will. This is how miracles are performed by natural law. These intelligences in the matter will obey God and move mountains at His command.This is the power Satan coveted. Furthermore, all those who "have been cleansed from sin every whit," as the BofM states, and have the priesthood authority from God, can also be delegated this power. THe BofM also states truly that if God were not just then He would cease to be God. Why? Because all these intelligences which make up the light of Christ would no longer support an unjust God, and His power would dissolve. Of course, I am confident that will never happen! Now I would like to ask a question. What man made religion could come up with such glorious truths?!?


Joseph Smith taught his followers to ignore the light of Christ, which told them that polygamy was wrong.

_________________
Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:52 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
Posts: 7306
Gdemetz, can you give an example of a Religion that God made that wasn't solely reliant on a single man's claim and interpretation of what God supposedly said?

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:04 am 
God

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 7448
gdemetz wrote:
Now I would like to ask a question. What man made religion could come up with such glorious truths?!?


Do you have any evidence that your claims are true, or is this just more assertions?

_________________
42


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:47 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:46 pm
Posts: 5923
Location: The Orange House: The loft overlooking the garden
I have never heard in all my Mormon life that the Light of Christ is made up of intelligences that carry out God's wishes and cause the miracles to happen.

I do not agree with your definition of the Light of Christ at all.

I do think that the Light of Christ concept is one of the better ones in Mormonism. However, in my studies of other religions and philosophies I have come across similar concepts. It is not unique to Mormonism.

It is probably one of my favorite concepts, still.

_________________
not all facts are even facts~ldsfaqs
And if pigs flew we wouldn't usually eat pork.~ldsfaqs


~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:30 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
Yes, drifting, it is "Mormonism," and it does not just rely on this claims of one man. For example, the witnesses to the Book of Mormon, twelve in all, including Joseph Smith.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:47 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 6:40 pm
Posts: 4340
Location: What does the fox say?
Gd,
What separates your revealed religion from the dozens of other revealed religions?

_________________
The ultimate action of a warrior, is to put down his sword.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:54 pm 
the very elect
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:07 pm
Posts: 5041
Oh boy.

We either have a
-exmo in chapel mo clothes
-internet mo in chapel mo clothes
-chapel mo about to get his testimony raped by the 800 pound gorilla named tRuth and handed to him

_________________
New name: Boaz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:17 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
Steelhead, I am a convert to the church, and before I joined, I examined many religions. I never found one who even claimed a small fraction of the things Joseph Smith and company claimed. The personal appearance of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ along with so many angelic visitations as well as glorious visions and revelations. Of course, I was very skeptical at first, but after much study and prayer, I now know that these things are true. What other church even claims Elijah has come back in fulfillment of OT prophesy, and there are so many other examples like this!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:50 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 6:40 pm
Posts: 4340
Location: What does the fox say?
You use that word..... know. What does it mean to "know that the church is true"?

Do familiarity and conviction equate knowledge?

You are also claiming that the extent of the miracles of the restoration are greater than that of the life and atonement of Jesus? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Also, why the Salt Lake City version of mormonism instead of the RLDS, FLDS, Strangites, or Bickertonites? If Joseph Smith is so pivotal.....

_________________
The ultimate action of a warrior, is to put down his sword.


Last edited by SteelHead on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:05 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
If you look at my comments on page 7 of "The LDS Members and the Kingdom of God," I think that the experience I described there would be a good answer to your question. As great as the miracles of the restoration were, they are still not as great as Christ's miracles, and, in particular, His atonement and resurrection.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:23 pm 
World's Top Zion Scientist
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 1:11 pm
Posts: 6646
Location: North Side of The Apocalrock
gdemetz wrote:
First of all, let me state that the reasons that I am writing this are twofold. The first is to show the beauty of non-man made, revealed religion, and the second is to try and dispel the myths associated with the athansian creed. The omnipresent entity in the universe is not any of the Godhead, but the light of Christ which is imminently connected to the Godhead. The vast "seas" of intelligences in the matter throughout the universe make up what is termed the light of Christ. As D&C 88 states, it is in all things, and it is, in fact, the power of God itself. Satan coveted this power, which was God's honor (see D&C 29) given by all these intelligences which sustain and support Him, not by force, but by their free will. This is how miracles are performed by natural law. These intelligences in the matter will obey God and move mountains at His command.This is the power Satan coveted. Furthermore, all those who "have been cleansed from sin every whit," as the BofM states, and have the priesthood authority from God, can also be delegated this power. THe BofM also states truly that if God were not just then He would cease to be God. Why? Because all these intelligences which make up the light of Christ would no longer support an unjust God, and His power would dissolve. Of course, I am confident that will never happen! Now I would like to ask a question. What man made religion could come up with such glorious truths?!?


Not bad. I have said as much for more than thirty years. Do not fall into the trap of thinking that the medium of Light and Truth that fills the universe is independent from God and can pick and choose of itself whom it will obey or disobey by its own cognitive collective thought. That would be like BH Roberts who imagined a power above the Godheads the god maker, whom, to Roberts, was an unknowable essence of philosophical bla bla bla merging LDS with the fashions of the world New Mormon Renaissance crap. I am not making this up. I wrote up a paper against Roberts back in the day of my devoted historical studies.

It was the existence of God that called all light and truth unto himself and put it to good use. He comprehended it and could rightly divide it for his names glory. If God ever ceased to be God it would be like turning off a switch and light and truth ceased as well. What that light is can be separated into independent spheres of existence after God commands it and provides it with knowledge respective to that sphere and element each particle of light and truth is given by right of God's assignment. See D&C 93. Without God light and truth can do nothing. It could only wait until God exists once again.

_________________
Apocalrock Visitor Center...Over 200 scriptural icons mostly cut out of one mountain without hands.
Mailing address: P.O. Box 694 Bountiful, Utah 84011
Shown by appointment only Ph. 801-815-5966

http://apocalblog.blogspot.com/.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:49 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 6:40 pm
Posts: 4340
Location: What does the fox say?
GD,
I read the pg 7 that you linked to and it mentions a spiritual witness.

Some questions:

The process of the creation of the Quran is also quite miraculous, and the growth of Islam seems a much better match for the prophecy of Daniel in regards to the stone cut without hands filling the world. Why is Islam not the "true path"? Or is it as valid as other revealed religions?

Imagine if you would a devout FLDS sister. She has a witness of the spirit that Warren Jeffs is the true prophet of the lord, that the FLDS church is true, that the LDS church is in apostasy, and the she as a sister wife is fulfilling the will of god in regards to her life. Is your witness more valid/reliable than hers? Why or why not? They are both based on the same restoration narrative.

Tobin is a regular poster here. He believes that the Book of Mormon is a historical work detailing the events it describes and is the literal word of god translated by Joseph Smith. Yet Tobin claims that many of the current church teachings, policies, and doctrines are in error. Tobin claims to have seen god, making him in every bit of the word as much as an apostle as Paul or any of the LDS inc 15. Is Tobin's witness as valid as yours? Is his proclamation that the church is in error in some of its practices valid? He is an apostle after all.

Nighlion practices a type phrenology of mountains looking for god's will in the bumps and crags of the apocalrock. He (now correct me if I am wrong) affirms that the LDS church is in apostasy and many of its teaching are in error. Is his witness less valid/reliable than yours?

All claim the "beauty of revealed gospel" and most share a common root.

Are all correct? All equally valid? Or is one more valid/reliable/certain/correct than the others? Why or why not?

_________________
The ultimate action of a warrior, is to put down his sword.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:54 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:01 am
Posts: 5786
Location: Get ready to feel the THUNDER!
SteelHead wrote:
Tobin is a regular poster here. He believes that the Book of Mormon is a historical work detailing the events it describes and is the literal word of god translated by Joseph Smith. Yet Tobin claims that many of the current church teachings, policies, and doctrines are in error. Tobin claims to have seen god, making him in every bit of the word as much as an apostle as Paul or any of the LDS inc 15. Is Tobin's witness as valid as yours? Is his proclamation that the church is in error in some of its practices valid? He is an apostle after all.

Incorrect. I've seen God. That does not make me an apostle. It does make me a theist and I can state that in fact I know there is a God. My opinions on other matters do not necessarily carry the same degree of knowledge.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:56 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 6:40 pm
Posts: 4340
Location: What does the fox say?
Tobin, you better go look up the definition of apostle and the history of Paul's apostolic claim.

_________________
The ultimate action of a warrior, is to put down his sword.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:59 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:01 am
Posts: 5786
Location: Get ready to feel the THUNDER!
SteelHead wrote:
Tobin, you better go look up the definition of apostle and the history of Paul's apostolic claim.
I wasn't called like Paul. I can tell you that there is a God if you are interested. If God shows up and gives me some additional insight, I'll be happy to relate it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:03 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 6:40 pm
Posts: 4340
Location: What does the fox say?
Tobin,
We can quibble about definitions but, how does seeing god and subsequently testifying about it not make you a defacto apostle?

Paul taught and ministered for the better part of ten years between his vision and his formal ordination. He at oft times affirmed his apostolic calling, defending it based on the event of his conversion.

_________________
The ultimate action of a warrior, is to put down his sword.


Last edited by SteelHead on Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Light of Christ
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:08 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
Nightlion, the scriptures do teach that these are "independent" in their respective spheres, and, of course, the BofM teaches that if God were not just then he would cease to be God. I recommend highly the article concerning the atonement witten by Dr. Skowsen which goes into great detain concerning this topic.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 254 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 13  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: EAllusion, Google [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot] and 26 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group