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 Post subject: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:08 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
No problem that the Geocities files were erased and with that the improved version of first translation of CARACTORS (I had some "bad humor comments" attached to the first upload versions, tentative translations started in 1998: I was banned by very superior orders, by so many years, without a trial or condemnation... No temple, no teaching, no preaching, nothing... for many years. I kept the faith...)

Now, BRAND NEW, made with some found SCRATCHES and new work, and complete revision, and taking into consideration the translation that was made for KINDERHOOK, it is "released" the NEW and REVISED and UPGRADED "TRANSLATION" of the "CARACTORS LIST" from J.Smith.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/203de26a4656a150b8ce9c217717c557b7ee488d976059195a93203f77086fc56g.jpg

Click on this URL to see the IMAGE of the "CARACTORS list of Characters" very enlarged and translated. Put the image in a photo-editor (even the paint-brush or Microsoft Picture Manager could enlarge very much the above provided image).

Even so, it is difficult to see good details as about so tiny "characters" that Joseph Smith copied from Gold Plates and the NUMBER I put to each character (for you locate them) and the TRANSLATION I made of EACH CHARACTER into MODERN CHARACTER that is equivalent. In some cases some commentaries are provided, for example, why that character is so important. Or that the character in fact is composed of several characters or we have superimposition...

I call your attention mainly to the Character "A", that came from Phoenician and it is presented in several "versions". One of them is very evident from Kinderhook plates... it is evident that it is no copy.

But the most important is the A which is the same that was used by the Sabellicus and almost at 600 B.C., "only",. Thus it is a way to provide the date of start of travel and of the plates of Book of Mormon (some 600 B.C.).

Such "mark" is an A with a DOT instead of the usual horizontal straight line crossing two inclined lateral lines (the "V").

Also
there are other unique characters in common, as the "Ú", which is a V with a "dot over it", as that "Ú" was used also by Sabellicus exactly in identical way shown in CARACTORS. Also in other archeological texts/places found in USA, such linguistic common features also were found... "Including" in Kinderhook. Should be HOAX?

Now the work going on is to separate all type of characters in tables according the sources (as CARACTORS, SABELLICUS, KINDERHOOK, NEWARK, LOS LUNAS, etc.), and make gatherings for specific CHARACTERS. With that it will become clear what is plain HOAX (falsification) and what is not. And in case of falsification, what was the probably the source.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:03 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
Now we can see how things are going on in this new message, "Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK". Such activities are going on, handling what was already translated with the whole contents of CHARACTERS from the list known as CARACTORS and from the 6 plates (12 faces) KINDERHOOK, also subjected to translation process, as disclosed to the MormonDiscussion.

As it was explained, each type of CHARACTERS will be gathered side by side to allow easy comparison of them, to make possible the discovery what is reasonable and what is plain HOAX. That is the intention by adding several sources of same type of CHARACTERS, not only from CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK, but from EUROPE and from other sources or CHARACTERS in USA (maybe Canada). There is nothing known in Meso-America because it is not true land of Book of America.

Next you can see already what was done and thus what will be done.

We are working now with "A" characters. Those from the list CARACTORS already are gathered and reproduced in next document, and also Characters from the first of 6 plates of KINDERHOOK.

You can see that the "A" characters from CARACTORS document is clearly from MODERN SABELLICUS of "exactly 600 years B.C. period Timberina = Roman" In such period the usual horizontal bar line between the two inclined lines was replaced by a DOT in the middle of the horizontal bar line.. (why?).

In the list of CARACTORS one "A" is alike Kinderhook, being from very OLD SABELLICUS (quite like very OLD Phoenician type).

The "A" from one plate examined (front and Back Kinderhook) is mainly with A old Phoenicians. See the very much enlarged of A copied by Joseph Smith and Kinderhook with your own eyes for examining details.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/dd04b1e5b62496e96b40d13003392229fa537d6cd8283d44b5116084a8fb04f86g.jpg

They can be seen without details, next:

Image
Best regards, Elysab


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:38 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
See next


Last edited by ELYSAB on Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:39 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
As result of great enlargement of each character, required for its close examination and translation, and to put into some standard position and classified as standard type of "character",

It started to "SPROUT" some evidences of mistakes on made general translation procedure made with the CARACTORS LIST and also with the KINDERHOOK PLATES. Thus they are being revised character by character, carefully, slowly. And some WORDS are appearing from it.

Thus contrarily to my personal believe, the list believed to have only CHARACTERS have shown to have some WORDS (maybe even some "phrases"???): to be evaluated. Thus I was "forced" to revise my biased first hand conclusions.

In fact Joseph Smith's CARACTORS LIST and KINDERHOOK PLATES have several points in common, quite like following some same principles, philosophy and purposes, from Ancient days. Quite for keeping secret and in suspension some information that were to be well searched but toward the wrong direction and goals by the wrong Wises of Zion.

We can see that the very start of the Document "Headed" with the Title of CARACTORS, by the very hand of Joseph Smith, was a mixture of SEVERAL DISTINCT CHARACTERS, quite like CLUMPED as if just one.


http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/836edd477c7ed10609521e6bc133cce4969b945c3566f6933e02aaae2b1472ae6g.jpg CLICK on URL and see the IMAGE very much enlarged. You can see that Joseph Smith did quite like with REAL INTENTION, since the very beginning, to make the document CARACTORS very "obscure" for ZION's WISES of Salt Lake City, quite like academics of BYU and FAIR and similar in opposition... We can understand very similar techniques were used in KINDERHOOK. Thus both were "misunderstood" documents for intellectual people.
Image

It was very clear real INTENTION of Joseph Smith when put SHADOWS on the exact nature of the "CARACTORS" as a document to not be UNVEILED (also the true Geography of Book of Mormon) by the type of Zion's Wiser and others, for them remain OBSCURE. When in fact Caractors were something alike KINDERHOOK CHARACTERS in nature, quite alike having use of SUPERIMPOSITION and use of DUMB lines in relation to a given Character being evaluated. All that foolished Zion's Wises, that could never IMAGINE that CARAC would be ancestor of "Latin/French-Portuguese CARACtere " and nothing to some to do, but much less, with English "CHARAC": English is a much corrupted Nephitic language. As Nephitic and Sabellicus once were just one language... corrupt added toward all branches, ways, ITI-neraries along language corruption. What about the meanings of the first WORD found in the list provided in the document "CARACTERS", written by JOSEPH SMITH?

It is written in the 5th position CHARACTERS, from left to right since the start of the document CARACTORS. It is very clearly written I-T-i, with the entire 3 CHARACTERS quite like well "welded" on the branches of the "middle character", one "t". It is quite like a lower case "t"and its "foot" extremity points to the right. That suggests that such writer was writing from left to the right, contrary to my opinion. Maybe it was indifferent if it was to write to one or other direction, but there are some letters (as L) pointing toward the left... But the general inclination of the letters is toward the right: writing was to right...
The translation, now in so greatest enlargement for each character, is not more being made in the sequence A to Z, but is going in parallel for all characters, and even translating also Kinderhook all together.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/2527e3e2e12709709bc7054d1b68a53fa880dba25aba31c653addaccc203831c6g.jpg
VERY ENLARGED IMAGE if you click on previous URL

Image ELYSAB


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:29 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
We may have an idea of what is alread translated and also is already quite like well REVISED, after the first and previous translation and revised that was already posted about some part of the character A, yesterday (see previous posted material).

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/62be3524babab99d07c1917ca51513d4d4eca6da03253b76ad5f9522ab1b91256g.jpg

Click and see the VERY ENLARGED image of the several characters that are alrady considered finished, from KINDERHOOD PLATES and from the LIST CARACTOR. Such image can be seen directly in small size next:

Image
ELYsab
You can see that the majority of the characters are "bended" toward the right direction, suggesting they wrote and read toward the right.


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:31 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
FOUND TWO MORE "WORDS" in the CARACTORS DOCUMENT

It appears we found two more WORDS from the list prepared by Joseph Smith, with Characters copied from Gold Plates of Book of Mormon. And such list of Characters being Headed (titled) as CARACTORS and sent to the USA scientist ANTHON and copy of it is plenty available in WEB sites.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/37c70af163c6ff917c54bceea0f03d5d67db9d6e28aa592c0377a9407550b9686g.jpg Click and see such two new words, very enlarged, obtained from the document CARACTORS made by Joseph Smith from Gold Plates of Book of Mormon.

Without such enlargement you can see such words just below.

Image

The first line with characters, from the CARACTORS document, is at the positions 10, 11 and 12 of CARACTORS. You can see such 3 characters make a "group", quite like typical of any GROUP of CHARACTERS generating a WORD in our modern LANGUAGES... HUM! Think about. Reason!

Probably the "R" (from "Ro" character, in Sabellicus, not Greek) is in UPPER-CASE. This could explain why it was written "over" the other characters (just a guess). Notice that the "turned around" part of the "R" is pointing toward the "left", as it is usual in the Sabellicus Sabina, which is written toward the LEFT (in opposition to Greek which is toward the RIGHT, as is in LATIN and modern Languages...).

What could be written? "RIL"? IRL would be the natural gathering...

Maybe we have two "I" characters (none "L") and the R. The under horizontal line (not being a character) is just to indicate the "lower case" for the Character "R".

We can expect this because such "L" is very "strange" pointing to the RIGHT (as direction to read) when the "R" is pointing the direction to read to the LEFT (as in Sabellicus).

Conclusion: the correct appears to be " i r i " (the 3 characters being LOWER CASE, as the 3 are united by the horizontal line indicating "lower case", a situation like in character 6 which is for "Greek SIGMA".... being "s" and not "S").

Thus for the first line with characters the word is " i r i" (lower case), a word that appears in so many places in Book of Mormon and others. As spIRIt(s), desIRIng and similar.

The second line is quite simpler. It is about Ri. The "size" of the characters suggests that R is upper-case and "i" is lower-case. What is the probable meaning of "Ri"? It is "laugh", result of being happy, etc. It is very clear that "Ri" compose ONE WORD, so close are the characters, as if any word made by two modern characters, as "GO" order in a phrase with "GO" having spaces separating such "cluster" from other isolated or group of characters.


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:12 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
See one of such TOMBS in ITALY, nearby ROME, of YEAR 500 B.C.
Image
presented in site:
http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/54967-1921-book-of-mormon-geography-hearings/page__st__80
Showing that the SABELLICUS (Etruscans?) CHARACTERS that were engraved at the entrance of so Ancient tomb, on stone head wall, can be read exactly well with Joseph Smith's CARACTORS list, as you see:
http://img9.mediafire.com/88dabbca9cf702b886e3bcd95a913ca48b641763dfb3d41236e61269f57c09bb6g.jpg
Notice that there are TWO "L", on the very ANCIENT NAME on the head carved on rock, at the entrance of the TOMB. Notice that one is pointing toward one direction and other is pointing toward the other direction. Thus it was not CRITICAL the direction toward what write...
Image

One general site on the ETRUSCANS: http://www.mysteriousetruscans.com/


And also there is another site about the OLD ITALIC CHARACTERS (quite like in parallel with the Etruscans). In practice all of them mixed as ROMANS.

http://pages.uoregon.edu/klio/rr/02-Old%20Italic%20alphabets.htm

Old Italic alphabets

Origin
The Old Italic alphabets developed from the west Greek alphabet, which came to Italy via the Greek colonies on Sicily and along the west coast of Italy. The Etruscans adapted the Greek alphabet to write Etruscan sometime during the 6th century BC, or possibly earlier. Most of the other alphabets used in Italy are thought to have derived from the Etruscan alphabet.

Ancient Latin
The earliest known inscriptions in the Latin alphabet date from the 6th century BC. It was adapted from the Etruscan alphabet during the 7th century BC. The letters Y and Z were taken from the Greek alphabet to write Greek loan words. Other letters were added from time to time as the Latin alphabet was adapted for other languages.

http://pages.uoregon.edu/klio/rr/Old%20Italic%20alphabets_files/ancientlatin.gif
Image

Here in the character "A" we can see so strange type of "A" that are so frequently presented in the Kinderhook plates. Some also are shown in CARACTORS document, but are rare cases. They are quite like of very ancient Phoenician origin, never of Greek origin. They are the result of the slavery narrated in Joel 3:6, as the Greek used a well done and well shaped "A" character, not these barbarian and brute "A" from the Phoenicians. Some H I listed as N, but in fact they are H, as it is clear even to "see" them as "H"... nothing justify having selected them as N, except the lack of proper information.


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:31 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
GOOD NEWS about the CARACTORS (NEPHITIC) and KINDERHOOK (very old NEPHITIC, quite like PHOENICIAN in transition to GREEK) being translated to MODERN CHARACTERS.

NOTICE: this post is BEFORE the previous one.

It was noticed that some CHARACTERS were POINTING toward reading to the LEFT (the usual for SABELLICUS, to differentiate the slave language from Greek's lords language in Greece) or to the RIGHT (the usual pattern for the GREEKS and for the LATIN languages.

We already noticed in the list of Characters named "CARACTORS" that both directions were apointed by the details of the CARACTORS, as the horizontal directions of the "L" (departing from the vertical axis) as if working as "arrows" pointing to the reading direction. Also we have similar "imaginary arrow" provided by the "Ro" character, in conflict with the "L" direction. Also the inclination of the characters, in relation to the standard vertical position, points to the direction of reading...

How could we have a people that could ALTERNATE the way of reading from one line to the next line? One line reading toward the right and the next reading toward the left? That is what the list of characters in CARACTORS is suggesting. It is quite like in now quite uselles typewriters, as I havfe some (not more in use) at the end of typing one line, not returning the printer head some 30 cm and moving to the next line, to start typing the next text. Instead just advance to the next line and start typing in the reversed direction and with reversed type of Characters... As the Nephites were doing: could do.

After making a search in the WEB, I found one solution and much more:

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/etruscan.htm
Etruscan alphabet

The Etruscan alphabet developed from a Western variety of the Greek alphabet brought to Italy by Euboean Greeks. The earliest known inscription dates from the middle of the 6th century BC. Most Etruscan inscriptions are written in horizontal lines from rigth to left, but some are boustrophedon (running alternately left to right then right to left).

More than 10,000 Etruscan inscriptions have been found on tombstones, vases, statues, mirrors and jewellery. Fragments of an Etruscan book made of linen have also been found. Etruscan texts can be read: i.e. the pronunciation of the letters is known, though scholars are not sure what all the words mean.

Archaic Etruscan alphabet (7th-5th centuries BC)

http://www.omniglot.com/images/writing/etruscan1.gif
Image
This collection of characters is reading toward the LEFT. Look at the L.

Sample text in Etruscan
(Texts of Book of Mormon on GOLD PLATES had this APPEARANCE):

http://www.omniglot.com/images/langsamples/smp_etruscan.gif
Image
NOTICE that in the document CARACTORS it is missing the use of "DOTs" (points) to separate the WORDS. We can explain that because the document CARACTORS was not to present WORDS "but" CHARACTERS (the document is on "CARACTORS", not on TEXT, on WORDS). And thus instead of using DOTS, they were replaced by SPACES in BLANK.

[url]http://www.mysteriousetruscans.com/tombs.html[/url]

See the very ancient TOMBS in Italy, of the Sabellicus (Etruscs?), quite like the origin of the INDIAN MOUNDS found in USA for BURIALS.


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:12 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
WHAT IS the "REFORMED EGYPTIAN" we can "see and read" from the document "CARACTORS" (written by Joseph Smith himself) and on the "original" KINDERHOOK plates?

Ours is the final language that was originated from Ancient initial EGYPTIAN LANGUAGE, and that suffered many TRANSFORMATIONS, in several Steps along the stages of lives of Israelites as they were DISPERSED from ISRAEL toward PHOENICIA (nowadays LEBANON) and then to GREECE, as it is reported by prophet JOEL 3:6.

From Greece some ISRAELITES were moved to ITALIA = ITA + LIAH, which means ITA=DESCENDENTS OF + LIAH = Jacob’s wife = Israel’s wife. Thus they were moved to Israel’s DESCENDENTS LAND = ITALIA. Thus they were moved into "another LAND OF REFUGE": for Israelites. Quite like for the 10 tribes that conquered the 2 tribes land. Thus all 12 tribes judged, sentenced and killed Jesus Christ: is it nice?

LIAHona = LIAH's + ONA ("ona" means something BIG=IMPORTANT in Sabellicus language and even in nowadays Latinized languages). We may guess LIAHona departed from ITAliah to EGYPT with NEFITES (Nephites is phonetic) with LERRI (LEHI is phonetic). There they built the town NEFIch, "for the NEFITES" in Egypt, at the place where it is nowadays important Egyptian ISMAILIA TOWN.

http://maps.google.com.br/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:pt-BR:official&hl=pt-BR&tab=wl

Nowadays Nefich became just a suburb (neighborhood) of the town Ismailia. And its name was turned to Nafishah. In a radius of 7 km around Nafishah lives 124,561 persons (according the Tourism Office of Egypt... well, it is the population of ISMAILIA. Ishmael and Nefi continue together... even nowadays. Good friends.).

http://mapcarta.com/13049058
Just click on such URL and you will see a site on MAP of modern town of ISMAILIA (Ishmael’s town) and of NEFI's town (NEFIch town) with its modern Arabic name NAFISHAH. The use of SH + AH is quite redundant (ignorance) in relation to original CH (of 600 B.C.) as "possessive form". All 3 ways mean the same thing... Land of Nefites.

Just move the image to see a little bit down and you will see the COLORED DROP (of some ORANGE COLOR) pointing to the position of NEFICH (maybe a little to the left and upper position... no problem! I have the more correct position from the French topographic precise map used in the design of Suez Channel, with the correct location of the original Nefich and it was next to the CHANNEL going to LEFT, to Cairo, the Nile River, and it was made by the NEFITES). Also it included the branch going "down", to the BITTER LAKES and then to the RED SEA. Only the channel going up is novelty, FRANCE/Suez project.

You may control, at the left side, the elevation of the "helicopter", to see the "image" of the region as seen from greater elevation or nearer to the ground (map at greater scale).




Notice that the FIRST LANGUAGE was EGYPTIAN. And it was REFORMED first into a SEMITIC LANGUAGE. The PROTO-SINAITIC.

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/protosinaitc.htm

Proto-Sinaitic / Proto-Canaanite

The Proto-Sinaitic script was the first alphabetic writing system and developed sometime between about 1900 and 1700 BC. People speaking a Semitic language and living in Egypt and Sinai adapted the Egyptian hieroglyphic or hieratic scripts to write their language using the acrophonic principle. This involved choosing about 30 glyphs, translating their Egyptian names into the Semitic language, and using the initial sounds of those names to represent the sounds of their language.
The script was partially deciphered by Alan Gardiner in 1916.
------> Thus people trying to create HOAX with KINDERHOOK could not know about several DETAILS that were UNVEILED MUCH LATER....

Proto-Canaanite is a name used for a version of the Proto-Sinaitic script as used in Canaan, an area encompassing modern Lebanon, Israel, Palestine and western parts of Syria. It is also used to refer to an early version of the Phoenician script as used before 1050 BC, or an ancestor of the Phoenician script. --->

---->PHOENICIAN AS THE NEXT STAGE OF REFORMED EGYPTIAN. NEXT CAME THE GREEK LANGUAGE. NEXT CAME THE NEPHITIC LANGUAGE AND SABELLICUS. NEXT CAME THE LATIN AND LATIN LANGUAGES (including influences in languages like English, Russian, and many others...).

A small number of Proto-Canaanite inscriptions dated to the 17th century BC have been found in Canaan. Most are short and were probably written by Semitic-speaking travelers or soldiers from Egypt.


Notable features
•Type of writing system: consonant alphabet (abjad)
Direction of writing: variable ---> SOMETHING I HAVE OBSERVED IN "CARACTORS" and also in KINDERHOOK (it comes from REFORMED LANGUAGE FEATURE, since the BEGINNING..., IT IS PHOENICIAN AND GREEK, also, as I CHECKED).
•Used to write: a Semitic language called Canaanite or Paleo-Hebrew (QUITE COMMON IN CHARACTERS AND TEXTS FOUND IN USA...).

Proto-Sinaitic / Proto-Canaanite script---->
---> FIRST REFORMED EGYPTIAN LANGUAGE <------

This is one version of the Proto-Canaanite script using Phoenician/Hebrew alphabetical order. The actual arrangement of letters used is uncertain. Most letters have more than one shape.

http://www.omniglot.com/images/writing/protosinaitic.gif
Image

A sample of a very old script in REFORMED EGYPTIAN is provided next, and is of 1,500 years B.C. From Serabit el-Khadim, Sinai Pennisula

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:13 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
No doubt. KINDERHOOK CHARACTERS are as correct as CARACTORS "characters": both are from the NEPHITIC civilization.



Well, we got much more information about the CHARACTERS, as from several type of SABELLICUS (Ancient OLD ITALIC ALPHABETS, as ANCIENT LATIN, ETRUSC, Adriatic, Picene, Oscan, Umbrian, etc.) and about several type of Greek (one of them was clearly a proto-version of Sabellicus in Greece...) and of Phoenician and then the FIRST version of REFORMED EGYPTIAN (the link between EGYPTIAN language and the first proto and most ancient version of Nephitic language).

Then we could conclude that the KINDERHOOK in fact is exactly as common NEPHITIC characters as the CARACTORS characters copied from the Gold Plates of Book of Mormon. They are the same thing, maybe the CARACTORS characters being for more "learned people, PRIESTS", and the KINDERHOOK being more for common people, being related to OLD ITALIC ALPHABETS, and in essence being just a SABELLICUS of the ANCIENT LATIN (as it is named) with all that strange "stuff" put on them on plates. But it is just OLD ITALIC barbarian like letters, of SABELLI's people who run away from Greece (Joel 3:6) where they spoke a low grade Greek (of the Slaves, common people), not the HIGH GRADE ACADEMIA "GREEK". We can see both in Nephitic of Book of Mormon (from CARACTORS) and from KINDERHOOK characters that are 100% GREEK and PHOENICIAN, without a counterpart of Old Italic alphabets. A clear evidence that Nephites were a people that lived in Greece and Phoenicia and yet had MEMORIES of such life of slaves in such places (JOEL 3:6).

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/d00a1f008bb46984795e9a9b7456baa12cfc32e05786d0268de331f49c8900fa6g.jpg
Click on URL to see very much enlarged IMAGE of the revised characters

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:35 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
No doubt. KINDERHOOK CHARACTERS are as correct as CARACTORS "characters": both are from the NEPHITIC civilization.

Thus KINDERHOOK "stretches" and "includes" the Nephitic Empire to include another landmark: the KINDERHOOK Indian Mounds, where 6 brass plates were found in the State of Illinois.

Thus KINDERHOOK is in accordance with the explanation provided by Joseph Smith that the NEPHITIC KINGDOM stretched from nearby nowadays town of New York (from the nearby only one CUMORAH HILL, the one which is "on the shore" of EAST SEA = Ontario Lake)
and such Empire goes to the Rocky Mountains (Albuquerque, N.M.). Kinderhook is in between such extreme limits...

Image


http://maps.google.com.br/maps?client=f ... -BR&tab=wl

Click on previous URL. It will appear the screen of Google Maps. In the field for "location" desired for the map, insert "Kinderhook, Illinois, USA" and press Enter. Hide the panel on left side. Go to the elevation bar of control system, at the left side, and lower the "ring" with a "minus" (-). As it goes down, the image changes as if you are in a balloon rising to great elevation. Keep rising. You may use the fixed (+) and (-) commands on top of the rod. Change the scale to reduce the size of image to be enough for Salt Lake be just right but next to the Panel of control of elevation and the Ontario Lake yet be full visible in the right border of the monitor screen and the town of Albuquerque (N.M., "Los Lunas, in Rocky Mountain") be visible above left down corner.

Draw a straight line from ALBUQUERQUE (New Mexico = Rocky Mountains where it was found huge Rock Wall written with a religious text in SABELLICUS: "LOS LUNAS")
to BUFFALO (near CUMORAH HILL) and you can "see" KINDERHOOK is exactly on the "center" of the ROUTE that Joseph Smith told (in relation to the ZELPH, the White Lamanite) it was the size of Nephite Empire...

Do you believe more in JOSEPH? Or do you believe more n some Zion's Wises providing revelations, to everybody, without explicit God's revelation, distorting Joseph's TRUTH? Biased wises?

For long 6 PLATES became IGNORED in the Church, being of unknown storage or position. It was clear that they could have been "eliminated or being LOST for ever, burned in some fire, sold as scrap metals, etc.".

It is possible that 6 original plates were replaced by some modern zinc brass "hoax" and the original characters were just photocopied (from files) to the "hoax zinc brass plates".

It is possible that even some LDS even provided "cover up" to replace lost original plates or even to "support" some type of "fraud" as means to eliminate such undesired Joseph's theory of Nephitic Kingdom based on USA (from N.Y. town region to Rocky Mountains).

Because such "hypothesis" would avoid the "exploration, exploiting" of the superb Ruins of so much more appealing, visible and profitable (as for tourism) Nephitic Empire based on Meso-America/Mexico (as it was finally decided and supported by the Church in 1921; thus it became necessary to "exterminate" Joseph Smith’s theory in favor of USA+CANADA’s being the headquarters of Nephitic Empire geography).

Well, these are just speculations… Maybe they have much better information, not easily available or yet undisclosed.

Kinderhook plates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinderhook_plates
The Kinderhook plates were a set of 6 small, bell-shaped pieces of brass with .... His last call on us was last Saturday and he brought with him half a dozen thin ... Smith cited the kinderhook plates in a map he drew ---> FALSE <--- of Moroni's journey to the hill ...

http://rsc.BYU.edu/archived/book-mormon ... e-prophets

http://rsc.BYU.edu/sites/default/files/ ... %204ne.jpg

Two Interesting Maps <--- THEY ARE CLEARLY VERY FALSE, NOT FROM JOSEPH SMITH, JUST "HOAX", INVENTED GARBAGE, ROTTING BAD SMELL THINGS ---->

Several years ago, I came across two copies (----> VERY FALSE. I WAS OWNER AND TECHNICAL DIRECTOR OF A MAPPING COMPANY, A BIG ONE, AND I NEVER SAW SO BADLY FALSIFIED MAP <--- of a map in the Archives Division of the Historical Department of the Church relative to Moroni’s North American journeys (see Figures 1 and 2). On the back of the map in Figure 1 is written the following:

A chart, and description of Moroni’s travels through this country. Got it from Br. Robert Dickson. He got it from Patriarch Wm. McBride at Richfield in the Sevier and also from Andrew M. Hamilton of same place.
And they got it from Joseph Smith the Prophet --> HOW GREAT DISTORTERS, TOPOGRAPHERS, WE HAVE?…----.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
and above it to the left is “Salt Lake.-----NOT POSSIBLE BE TRUE----” To the right is “Independens, Jackson Co, Mo.” and above that is “Adam on Diamon, Davis Co, Mo.” To the right of that is “Nauvoo, Hancock C.Ill.” Below that is “Mound Kinderhook, Pick, Co, Ill, 6 Plates Bell shape were found” (were was was on one copy). Then to the right and above that is “Kirtland, Ohio,” and to the right of that is “Commorre [Cumorah], N.Y ----> MISTAKES OF SPELLING ADDED TO MAKE IT MORE "REASONABLE", TRUSTABLE, QUITE LIKE PIRATE'S MAP. -.-.-.-.-.


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:20 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
It was possible to make the careful TRANSLATION of all CHARACTERS from the first top line of the document CARACTORS, a list made by Joseph Smith through the copy of some characters from some Gold Plates used for translation to generate the English Version of BOOK OF Mormon.

Each CHARACTER, from the document CARACTOR, that is in the first line, received a special attention in the sense of identifying the original linguistic source used to originate such CHARACTER (mainly if it was originated from ITALIAN Geography, or from Greek language or from Phoenician language or else). Thus for each CHARACTER it is provided the reproduction of the ORIGINAL CHARACTER used, as by Nephites writers to generate the CARACTOR's character. And it was checked if they were writing toward right or to left. Or we verified if they were alternating such direction of writing.

In fact some short words (or parts of words) were written in the first line of "Charactors". And some "words" (never "phrases") are quite evident, important and very used in their language, even to write Book of Mormon, as it was written in quite like an Italic Language... With some minimal of Greek and Phoenician: just a “seasoning”.


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:50 am 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
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Conclusions:

about the TRANSLATION of CHARACTERS and small WORDS that are on the list named CARACTORS, made by Joseph Smith through making copy of characters copied from Gold Plates used to translate the Book of Mormon.

As far as I went on, with a general previous translation, and then with in depth translation (linking to the source of characters, as from several type of Old Italic alphabet, and from Standard Old Greek Language and even to Ancient Greek, Phoenician characters, etc.), it could be concluded that the LANGUAGE USED BY THE Nephite PEOPLE WAS:

1) - Basically, for general purposes, the NEPHITIC language and characters were very alike the OLD ITALIC characters LANGUAGES (as some blend of Ancient Latin, Etruscan, Adriatic/Picene, Oscan, Umbrian, Sabina,Sabina-Tiberina, Etrurian,Campania-Osca, Samnio, Campania, etc.). Several names could mean the same thing, as they came from several authors, several sources and regions/times, providing quite similar characters and language features.

2) - Quite like some "clusters" of people living in "cultural-religious" alike "ghettos" (resembling JEWISH ones, as living in towns of Poland, and not having great "mixing with neighbors", the Nephites were like a BIG FAMILY COMMUNITY, that also had their own "language, religion", that was not the "plain orthodox Judaism", but was not also Pagan religions surrounding them. Thus they had "PRIESTS, not the same as in Judaism". They had such PRIESTS already in captivity in Lebanon (Phoenicia), Joel 3:6. They helped them survive as "hidden nation" through Phoenicia, Greece and Italy. Priests ordered to build the TOMBS, like Indian MOUNDS, also mentioned in Bible...

Because of such PRIESTS they had written and spoken/verbal/tradition "memory" of those days of slavery in Lebanon, in Greece and of going to be free and living in freedom in ITA-LIAh.

Because of them, it was preserved the way they "used" Phoenician and Greek language and characters, together with Hebrew, to organize their own and hybrid "family/group community of slaves" and their language, the Nephitic = SAB-ELLI's language, quite alike Caractors language, being of the family of OLD ITALIC ALPHABETS.

Thus such "family-group" (of "good parents) of special "racial-religious group", quite alike some "Jewish groups" that were to live segregated in some nations for years ahead, had quite like their DIALECT for their INTERNAL USE. Thus they could use some WORDS that were of same meaning of those being used by surrounding people of OLD ITALIC ALPHABETS and replace them by same meaning and value characters from GREEK and PHOENICIAN characters.

For sure (due to their Priests) they were able even to write in Hebrew, knowing that Hebrew and Phoenician (and thus Greek and thus Sabellian = Nephitic) all were just REFORMED EGYPTIAN LANGUAGES and CHARACTERS: just originated from the same source, the same origin of semitic languages, at the same point in Sinai: originated from the same EGYPTIAN LANGUAGE.
Best personal regards, ELY - SAB.


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:54 am 
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Have any skolars examined the caractors? I know the Anthon story but that's fake propaganda.

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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:46 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
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People say the same thing in relation to the Gold Plates with Records from Nephites, Jaredites, Lamanites, etc. They are just Romance Books

They say such things are just HOAKS because scientists can't examine all such "evidences" to be sure they are true and honest scientific evidences backing true theory or hypothesis or revelation or account.

Thus all our revelation is based on nothing, are based on just in non trustable accounts. Most of what is in Bible are also based on nothing. They are based on accounts without "tangible scientific trustable evidences, that we can't submit to physical/chemical tests".

Some are even based on DREAMS, thoughts, temptations, apparitions... all without witness that such "dreams like" conditions really took place... We have none evidence that the records (even those of Book of Mormon) in fact are those original records (as from KINDERHOOK) and not others... That they were not invented or changed, according the interests of some group of persons. That most of Bible is not just composed of HOAX..., adding and removing parts, as doctrines... ISLAMITES (Muslims) say that greatest part of Bible that survived is just FAKED MATERIAL: thus they avoid using it.



Have any scholars examined the caractors? I know the Anthon story but that's fake propaganda.
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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:29 pm 
Valiant B

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PROPOSED TRANSLATION OF THE KINDERHOOK CHARACTERS.

The work for CARACTORS is basically finished. Now is more for academic work, as for students of some good and reliable universities, to finish the research. Maybe some LDS university center, like BYU, can do the work. As remain none mystery about the translation of the CARACTORS and their meaning and their origin and evolution through the time. This case is trivial.

What about the KINDERHOOK translation? The same, as the CHARACTERS are exactly the same. There is nothing to add or remove, because the CHARACTERS have the same origin. It is just a matter of intensity of evolution that we can see. As if in one case we can report the language used in the days of Joseph Smith and then we can read the report written in nowadays current English. Some distinction can be noticed. Also we don't know the PERSONAL purpose that was given when both plates were written. Both documents were not based on the same source, as if originate by copy of some original document. Thus so many effects must be taken into account. Even we have to consider and judge the personal styles in selecting what characters to select or what to stress as more important. As given more importance to old characters in relation to their surrounding living language of neighbors, of their OLD ITALIC ALPHABETS and ITALIAN/ETRUSCAN friends. In any way so many of such more recent source of characters are present in KINDERHOOK, and they would be IMPOSSIBLE to have been added, because the TOMBS of such ANCIENT ITALIANS (as the ETRUSCANS) yet were too recent (started in 1830...) and not yet understood and not known by academic/scientists to have been used into practice in HOAX materials in KINDERHOOK, a "lost far away place, at the end of the civilized world"... as it was the "FAR WEST". Only people "mad as a HATTER" could guess in such so mad idea...

HOW COULD IT WORKS A TRANSLATION OF A KINDERHOOK PLATE?

For sure some learned LDS, as some of BYU, are not to appreciate this mere SUGGESTION. In fact it is not more than a SPECULATION by now:

Image

If you want to see much more enlarged, click on next URL. (click again on image to make it enlarge even more).
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/2b688d8a81bcdb10dd4a7643975c3453a846b25442eaba626c2d731f755b0c246g.jpg

Consider the ENCLOSED PLATE 1, face 1 (other is the same thing).
Consider it is as if CARACTORS document. Thus it may have been written to the write or to the left or ALTERNATING (system BOUSTROPHEDON, that I concluded it was the case of NEPHITIC language based on CARACTORS document). Also it is KINDERHOOK... The usual is to start at the TOP.

You look at the document and you can see the "R" character, which looks like the modern letter=character "D", is in the reversed way. Thus we must read from Right to Left.

We start with the character "A" which appears "Phoenician", but it is upside down. It was never Phoenician... Probably this was from a manual for CRYPTOGRAPHY. On top of such "A" is an "I". Move to the left is character "I" and "R" and then "d" (signal to end the word). Thus we may have something like AIIRI.

Then we continue after "d" (which is like our "dot" for phrase or blank space between words): W W (they are from Sabellicus Sabina Tiberina of VI-V century BC... ITALY) and I and S (is only from Italic languages) and comes "d" (like an "end point"): the word WWIS ("UIS")

Then continues to left with U and I and S and you reach the END. What happens now? How do you continue to read? The E and S shapes tell us to read as Italic people did: from left to right. We are acting as Boustrophedon...

Thus we continue to read the WORD, that we stopped in UIS (upper line) and now we read E (like Greek EPSILON)... There is an I before character E. Thus we read IE. Continue there is R and the end of course "d". Thus the next possible word is UISIR.

Continuing we have LUTR. And then mark end of course.

Then start with S at the end of 2nd line and goes to the START of 3rd line because the letters/words are to be read toward the right (just examine them). At the very left of 3rd line, the word continues with I and then S and I and I and R. Comes the "d". Thus the word is SISIIR.

Then it continues AIRIAIS. Then comes "d". Then continues SISSE (last E already at the left of 4th line). Then continue ERIAKIS.
"d" AI "d" SI SIID.

No doubt, it is very "crude" yet as translation. But quite very much distinct in relation to what we have with CARACTORS, which is basically a LIST of CHARACTERS. And thus no chance of messages.


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:39 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
GEOGRAPHY of BOOK OF Mormon having KINDERHOOK IN IT x

JOSEPH SMITH DISCLOSURE = UNVEILING about SUCH GEOGRAPHY linked to PUBLIC REVELATION ABOUT ZELPH and GEOGRAPHY OF Nephites KINGDOM x

MODERN LDS-BYU GEOGRAPHY OF Nephites IN MESO-AMERICA DENYING KINDERHOOK AND JOSEPH SMITH'S REVELATION ABOUT ZELPH geography


What are the BASICS and FUNDAMENTAL "principal" CORNERSTONES of LDS GEOGRAPHY? They are linked to the BOOK OF Mormon text.
As related to the NEPHITIC-LAMANITIC-MULEKITES and JAREDITES people living in "AMERICA", in "SOMEWHERE" geographic told places.

Are them in South America? In Meso-America/Central-America? In Mexico? In the USA? In somewhere Canada? Partly in USA and partly in Canada? In the whole North America continent? In all over the America continent? In just some Island of Sea (as Cuba?)?

What is the relationship of Geography for Nephitic-Lamanitic-Mulekitic events in relation to the Jareditic events? Are them in the same very land, with just other names? Or is just there some overlap of lands?

How can we know that one geographic event, described and located by some toponimic identification (as one name and feature) is the true same land of some other name in the other culture?

I guess there is just one case in which there is one "explicit" link of one Jaredict place being written as the same for Nephites, in Book of Mormon: it was when Jaredite's records were being translated into Nephitic's.

It is like you have the old map of Roman Empire, made as good as possible. Then you get another and modern map of Italy. And you try to identify the place of a plane crash event on both maps and how to go to such place. Probably some things are in common in both maps, as the rivers e peak of mountains, for example... Some towns and roads disappeared...

As in the case of Book of Mormon, some towns probably were burned, as they were made basically of WOOD, the ideal material for very cold places, as NORTH LANDS and thus the "devastation = DESOLATION, Deforestation"... And the bad environmental impacts as lack of animal wild life...

Think about the Japanese, living in places of very severe cold weather. "Guess" if their "dream" (like those described in Book of Mormon) was to live in a "cold" house made of STONES or of BLOCKS OF CEMENT... No! As in Book of Mormon, Their "dream" was to have houses made of WOOD, even if it comes from far away, transported by huge Hagoth's cargo sail ships. Because of CONFORT, as thermal one, provided by wood. Also it is safer if you are subject to earthquakes: I lived in Berkeley (S.F.Bay Area).

For hot climates, it makes no difference in living in a brick house or without wood thermal insulation on floor and walls. Thus in Jerusalem and Israel or Egypt it was reasonable to live in houses made of stones or bricks or "blocks of soil cement = quick lime + sand + pebble stones".

Where did start the KINGDOM OF Nephites? Had KINDERHOOK?

WHERE IS THE VERY BASIC MAP of the GEOGRAPHY of BOOK OF Mormon LINKING NEPHITIC DAYS and our MODERNITY DAYS?

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/e23 ... 69f06g.jpg

You can see the pathway of Nephites (and also of the CHURCH) from the landing harbor of LIBERTY (statue...). Nephites landed in N.Y. Long Island (point 1), moved through Hudson River to Cumorah Hill on Sea East (Lake Ontario) = Point 2. Next moved to Kirtland, Ohio, L.Erie (point 3). Then to point 10, at the margin of River Illinois, where it was found the skeleton of ZELF (WHITE Lamanite Warrior, who was known all over the Nephite KINGDOM, from CUMORAH HILL to the ROCKY MOUNTAINS: disclosure by Joseph Smith). From point they went to point 4=Independence, Mis. ; then to point 5=NAUVOO, Illinois, which is KINDERHOOK location. Well in the Joseph Smith's route from CUMORAH HILL to the ROCKY MOUNTAINS for Nephite's KINGDOM size.

http://img28.mediafire.com/b179bd4047cd ... 6f4b6g.jpg Then click on the image for it become even enlarged.

From point 5 LDS moved to 6=Winter Quarters. The Old Nephites from 6 moved to 8 = LOS LUNAS, a great smooth stiff flat vertical wall with carved religious message in NEPHITIC CHARACTERS of type shown in KINDERHOOK plates. In modernity days the modern Nephites moved from point 6 to the point 6 = Salt Lake Valley, in Rocky Mountains.

JOSEPH SMITH declared very plainly that places like KINDERHOOK, NAUVOO, INDEPENDENCE, KIRTLAND, CUMORAH, etc. all were built over the Nephites EMPIRE.... And never told untruth things like that the Nephites empire was sited in Mexico or Meso-America... In very plain words, Joseph Smith told the very truth during the event of ZELPH's skeleton discovery next to River Illinois: point "10" in the enclosed MAPS. One reason why they try to silence KINDERHOOK.

I used such Zelf's CLUE from the GREATEST and New prophet, instead of using so many bad clues from people who are just "curious"... Without powers of God's revelation, just providing Aaron foolished Jews to worship gold calf (even being well informed about Truth and God) and for Balaam’s revelation as to fornicate Jews with Arab's girls.

This is what some are doing and teaching, acting as Aaron, that Nephite's kingdom was in Mexico or Guatemala or "both" or there but with Cumorah's last battle being as in one isolated point in USA, with enemy Armies marching side-by-side, in peace, by thousand of miles just to face the final battle so far away... Could believe in so untruth?

Some good pioneers were of "good heart", like those asking to Aaron, Moses' brother, some way to make it easier to worship God. Providing an easier and more reliable religion, full of idols to touch and make tourism trips to such Nephitic ruins. Quite like going to Israel to see ruins in the "Holly Land" and their tourist religious events.

In fact it is much easier to worship a Gold calf that everybody can "see" (as pyramids in Mexico and Guatemala... They distort their true bloodiest history as being Nephiste's), than to believe in some History that is kept much HIDDEN. As it was to believe in GOLD PLATES that nobody could SEE or TOUCH or examine. It was as if MOSES' God before Israel: they wanted IDOLS, tourism. They had to make choices. Believe in Moses' God, based on Moses' word and disclosure (revelations) and keep marching in the desert during 40 years. Or, ... for sure, they had the option to return to the Egypt and return to the life of slavery. And being slaves of Gold Idols of Egypt, also liars.

Or could return to believe in idols and pyramids of Mexico/Guatemala as being what is the true Geography from Book of Mormon events and IDOLS being added... Free! People like very much idols, statues... mainly if of gold or covered with a thin sheet of gold. See Aaron...

Some old Christians instead of combating some pagan idols, as so many "goddess", Pagan female God, decided to turn all of them into "one": their "Mother of God" (and there is just one God, Mother of the One God). Thus all Pagan female Divinity were turned into just "one" and then accommodated and used to attract so many adepts...

This old practice of "accommodation" and "attraction" may explain the interest in making Meso-America and Mexico also "integrated", even since the old past as part of the Nephitic kingdom and with the ruins.


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:51 am 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
I descend from the VERY ANCIENT and OLDEST FAMILY of SABELLI = SAVELLI that is believed to be an ISRAELITE family that originated from JOEL 3:6 days. And that lived in slavery in LEBANON (Phoenician) and in GREECE. From Greece they "run away, moved to" the ITALIA = ITA LIAH, the land for the "ITA = descendents of" LIAH = JACOB's wife = ISRAEL's wife = Land for the ISRAELITES = Land for the SABELLI = SAB ELI = SABaoth ELI. That in Nephitic language = SABELLI's language means, read from right to left, as Sabelli did in Greece and in Ancient Italy, in SABELLICUS language,
ELI SABaoth = “MY GOD” the “LORD of Heavenly ARMY” = My God Jehovah = Israel’s God = I am Israelite = I am SABELLI = I am Neph (just a small sub-tribe among so many tribes of Sabelli's, as SABINES, LUCANES, PICENTINES, UMBROS, SAMNITES, etc.).

It is well known that a sub-tribe NEPH (NEF) joined to the CELTS in the north of Italy, some VIII (7?) century BC and they made great invasions and disgraces through Europe, even going as far as DANub river (DAN in Sabellicus language...). Also they crossed the CHANNEL that separates France and Great Britain. In it they stopped in the Island of DIEU or ADIEU, which is a SABELLICUS name of GREEK divinity origin (and it is in Book of Mormon, and some think it is of modern French). In Great Britain some Sabelli=Nephites moved to live in NORTH IRELAND, in a region named NEPHIN= NEPH IN, the living place for the Nephites. There you can now find words in Nephitic mixed among Celtic and English... Yet alive Nephitic. Their poetry is quite like old Hebrew poetry... I have an Irish descendant relative in family.

The other NEPH branch departed from Rome's region, something I concluded in late 1997 or maybe early 1998, when I went to work in Italy, ordered by my bi-national sanitation company. That was a sudden order.

When going to board the ALITALIA plane, my connecting flight arrived late. I was the last passenger to come to the desk to board. There was just one seat vacant, at the very rear. Then the attendant "remembered" there was plenty of seats at the very first row of economy class, from window to window, but BLOCKED by an unknown PASSWORD. As it has ended the boarding time, attendant reasoned such seats had been unlocked by now. They weren't. I had asked window. The blocked seat "blinked and turned free". It got unlocked by itself, without requiring password but the others remained blocked and requiring password. The attendant told my invisible group was just waiting for me and were holding the reservation for us have some privacy. Never during the flight any person sat or even tried to seat on any of that "blocked" seats: maybe others passengers “saw” that vacant seats as occupied seats... (?) Even if the plane was very overcrowded and before our seats there was a corridor: plenty space to stretch the legs.

During the flight I became aware that the trip to Italy was not a common trip, but had something linked to my very ANCIENT ANCESTORS of remote ages…, that I never could dream about. But first of all I had to fulfill the job for what I had been sent to work in Italy. It was to pay attention to the surnames, as on the tombs, on museums, on catacombs,… And that my family ancestors were in quite like two trees. One being the dark side, and symbolism could be the Vatican I was to visit and pay attention. Also quite like a chain/network of Isabel’s palaces through many waters and places of the World. And good ancestors, trees being symbolized by those righteous who died in witness of righteousness, even in Coliseum, to where they were to be gathered to hear I preach a speech to them.

And then, flying very high, departed. I didn't worry about or become mystical or sorrow. I had a normal dinner and a dream night. I raised the arm supports and slept, as if over a bed, while flying to Rome, for a hard next work day.

Thus I paid great attention, quite like trying to discover the “links” among the “words”. My wife, by phone, told me to go without any type of money, when visiting any type of Isabel's relative castles, mainly the corrupt luxurious one.

In hotel my eyes got open and suddenly I started to see and understand “words”. Like a “curtain” fell before my eyes and I saw the Book of Mormon was written in my own VERY ANCIENT "SABELLICUS LANGUAGE", of some 600 BC. And that the Nephites had departed from ITALY, from nearby ROME region. It is amazing when you are surrounded with so many "whispers", each one as if from the Coliseum, now them trying to provide you their history.

So I could understand that the WORDS in BOOK OF Mormon are exactly the SAME as those of WORDS of SABELLICUS in some 600 BC in ITALIA, in ITA=DESCENDENTS OF (israel-ITA, ita=descendents of Israel) and that a parallel could be made between what was in BOOK of Mormon and in OLD ITALLIAN LANGUAGE. And it was very easy TO SEE corruption in the translation toward ENGLISH (from original Book of Mormon in SABELLICUS = NEPHITIC dialect) and from SABELLICUS (of 600 BC) toward our modern Latin-alike languages.

Thus Joseph translation was not something perfect for Latin languages... Some words in fact were not "translated", but just "adjusted cultural-phonetically", and that is very easy to know if you know the original version.... And some words are clearly wrong, as they had none meaning in English, as SHAZER, when it was to mean CHASER for Hebrew or Sabellicus/Latin. But that is not problem, as it is "phonetic" the same.

Immediately (14 years ago…) I wrote and sent a detailed report to some friends and SUD (LDS) important authorities of Brazil. And WORST, BAD IDEA, I did the same for friends and authorities of USA: a CULTURAL PROBLEM.

I was so silly that I even sent, in a Saturday, an express Mail (EMS) to the Church President himself. What so silly!... I doubt that ever such letter reached Gordon B. Hinckley… But, next Wednesday night I was called to be punished, without any specific accusation, and without any trial or possibility of defense, to be cut as being first counselor of bishop (who resigned and abandoned the LDS religion, in protest) and I became without Temple recommendation for very long many years... and prohibited to teach or making speeches or writing sites, having to destroy them... "I became like a dead – alive” member, in “limbo”.



Probably the subject of ITALIC LANGUAGE being like a (Greg) "SHORT HAND" to NEPHITIC LANGUAGE/CHARACTERS remains quite as "dangerous" pathway to follow… But in any way it is the CORRECT PATHWAY. Congratulations from a SABELLICUS language which INCLUDES such a wide possible branch of sub-language and sub-tribes and characters into what you proposed.



I posted extensive literatures in SUD (Brazil) and LDS literature (even in FAIR) and even in Israelite sites (since 1999) about such nothing conventional things, as translation of CARACTORS into CHARACTERS and their gathering into WORDS. In fact I learned much from the Jews of USA, because when I could do not among the LDS, some Jews suggested me share their friendship, as if an "exiled"... Thus I was accepted as LDS to live and be protected among the Jews, friendly, as brother. Quite like Moses among Arabs into Jethro’s family.

I learn some good things. As how they translated so many NEPHITIC materials they gathered across USA, quite like "other nephitic texts/plates": very good information you should know it exist, and that LDS try to hide the existence... and the TREASURES it was excavated from Indians Mounds, a work done including by Joseph Smith, was bought by the Jews, mainly in their hands…. They translated according scientific principles. Not exactly as I had done, but the final result is quite like the same… I was considered RABINE because of SCINCE, not because of RELIGION, as I continue LDS… Large number of posted articles in Jew sites, including orthodox).

I suggest you examine the contents of the following TOPICS:

Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20022

Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19926&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=63

Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:24 pm
Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:41 pm
Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:46 pm
Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:03 pm
Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:02 pm
Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:26 pm
Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:21 pm

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19926&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=84

Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:06 am
Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:14 pm
Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:52 am
Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:22 pm
Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:18 pm
Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:28 pm
Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:36 am (Please, see this)
Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:03 pm (see this, also)
Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:23 pm

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19926&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=126

Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:29 am

CHARACTERS BOOK Mormon FOUND WITH USA INDIANS IN PETROGLYPHS

http://ldsfriends.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=2504&sid=0cafc4de90596bb572c58571c516593d

The posted material is SO OLD that all external links are not more working... GEOCITIES provider was extinct by Yahoo... You can see that the use of ITALIC CHARACTERS was extensively discussed in FAIR


Mormon DIALOGUE & DISCUSSION BOARD
1921 Book Of Mormon Geography Hearings * * * * *

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/54967-1921-book-of-mormon-geography-hearings/page__st__60

Message #63 (how to write and read in NEPHITIC = ITALIC language = SABELLIC)
Message #65

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/cc1eb62bdf60b7c21be43b13c0c0778260bcaba60ee7872d3d1c993ccb1a309b4g.jpg CLICK ON URL and "SEE"

Message #68
Message # 71
Message #75
Message #79 (meaning of CUMORAH and SABAL, Mormon, MORONI)

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/f9ae412fc6d3ebeb7513fdaf14d5e02c6c323ed13bc8236e6b2162cdd98fc6c94g.jpgCLICK ON URL and "SEE"

Message #42 - kingdom around MANTI and RIPLAH and RIPLIANCUM
Message #80
Message #83 NEPHI town in EGYPT and NEPHI region in IRELAND
Message #84 Jews scientists translated Nephitic characters, they found in USA, in some places, for long.
Message #89 DID ROMAN EMPIRE "CHARACTERS"=MODERN LATIN was used in writing BOOK OF Mormon? NO! They used ARCHAIC SABELLICUS, which has nothing to do with modern Latin characters.

MESSAGE #91 = HERE IS THE EXPLANATION WHY NOT MODERN LATIN

MESSAGE # 92 shows the CHARACTERS and LANGUAGE being used in ITALY when Nephites DEPARTED from there, starting the trip to USA.
You can see nice pictures of Objects found from Indian MOUNDs with texts written on them with CHARACTERS like those on Anthon Caractors, usually gathered by Jews scientists (not FAIR/BYU). Also the great smooth vertical wall also with carved characters of NEPHITIC generating a Religious Bible text in New Mexico.

Message # 93 etc. etc., up to the Message 120 (the Forum was CLOSED, EXTERMINATED to new posting: it is what appears; some ideas are not welcome, as I discovered in 1998 about the Nephites being a branch from a Greek-Italian "TREE"; they tried to SILENCE me as they tried also silence SCIENCE, as evident with GALILEO GALILEI. In vain). You yourself will concluded the obvious. Your proposition is toward the correct solution. Best personal regards, sincerely yours. ELYSAB


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:21 am 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
Some more material on translation of Nephitic charactes and words to English, and vice-versa, are available even in LDS sites, in Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, French... and English. As this one published in FAIR in 2005. Unfortunatelly the pictures (images) were based on Geocities server (from YAHOO) what was extinct. They can be retrieved, but the process is not reliable or easy. But almost all such images I had saved in my computers and CD, before the end of Geocites, and can be obtained. Also some of such material can be obtained in Jewish sites, in a cooperation started in 1999 mainly with Washington, in the research about of Garden of Eden, Eden and even America's Garden of Eden and their linking. A research that came "from the space", and generated the "one hour map", quite like a view from 1,200 km over a fixed point in so many millions years ago. It was only for research purposes: "no religion".

http://ldsfriends.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=2523&highlight=savelli

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:48 pm Post subject: BOOK Mormon being written BACK in NEPHI's language! See it!

RESTORE on PLATES words and phrases as they were written on GOLD PLATES before translation to generate our Book of Mormon.

There is a work going on, since 1998 (started in ROME) to RESTORE on plates exactly the same words and phrases that originally were written on Gold Plates and originated the translated BOOK OF Mormon. Such "restoration" is being done using the same LANGUAGE and rules used in the NEPHI's language, with the SAME CHARACTERS (as "ANTHON's CARACTORS" and from USA INDIANS PETROGLYPHS found in USA, as from NEWARK-OHIO from 1860 - quite old - and from LOS LUNAS/Albuquerque-New Mexico).

You should examine the specific drawing on such task, going on. You may JOIN IN IT, with your HELP and COMMENTS and criticisms. You are welcome!

http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/elycellis ... ITICOd.JPG ---> GEOCITIES ended
(click on right down corner of it up to become enlarged).

This is a more specific FIGURE, showing how to "restore" = write back, on modern PLATES and sheet of paper, to become alike GOLD PLATES, with the same words, according with OLD CHARACTERS and OLD LANGUAGE RULES. ----> continues in FAIR


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:23 am 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
Posts: 189
We have to take into consideration the factor "time" in very ancient characters (or whatever is equivalent to it, as glyphs, cuneiforms, ideograms, etc.). Should be the Adam's words and characters had been writen just some 5,772 years ago? What YEARS?

We assume, wrongly, that 1 God's day = 1,000 mortality time years. Maybe it is quite alike "WORTH" 1,000 astronomic and geologic time years. In fact God's scale and Mortality time SCALE are not LINEAR, one in relation to the OTHER. God's scale goes soon toward INFINITY, going ahead and backwards, and both infinites join as if Alpha and Omega, as if into "one ethernal circle". We could reason as God's scale being EXPONENTIAL both toward two directions, when expressing "infinite time events", in relation to our limited mortal time events. Even our astronomic and geological events are also quite limited, no as much limited as our geologic and astronomical time THAT ARE NOT "MORTALITY TIME", or replacement to that, as they are not mortal time.

In fact MORTALITY TIME, used to measure the TIME of WORDS and CHARACTERS written by ADAM and his first DESCENDANTS, was measured through LIVING HUMANS, not through astronomic or geologic events. You should notice that they are not used in Biblical accounts to measure Biblical time spans, as in any Scripture Book.

Thus in fact MILLIONS and MILLIONS our "astronomic and geodesic" time, which is not the MORTALITY TIME, have past since ADAM and EVE were created (ORGANIZED and then turned MORTAL) in Garden of Eden, up to nowadays, when in fact quite like MORTALITY TIME has past. Oh, but I provided a date for tablets with ADAM script and they were of MILLION years. Correct. Geologic time...

What is the relationship between geologic/astronomic time, in the tablets with words/characters, and the mortality time and God's time?


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 Post subject: Re: Translation of CARACTORS and KINDERHOOK + similar materials
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:34 am 
God
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Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:23 am
Posts: 13628
Location: On the imaginary axis
May I humbly suggest to ELYSAB that instead of continuing to make long posts here - which no-one appears to be reading, because no-one ever responds - he needs to start a blog?

See here for suggestions as to how to do this.

Or, if it is easier:

Come Creare Un Blog.

That way he could put all his writings together and refer people to them when he wants to. It is simply a waste of time posting them here, where they will simply get lost as each topic slips off the bottom of the page.

Now, I can't be more helpful than that, can I?

_________________
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


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