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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:13 am 
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Buffalo wrote:
I suspect DCP shares Schryver's misogyny, but has the common sense to keep it to himself.


I have to respectfully disagree, Buff.

Although I am no more able to read the intents of Dr. Peterson's heart than anybody else, I think he probably finds many of Will's posts here offensive.

But DCP is sort of between the devil and the deep blue sea, in that he may find it imprudent to post his true thoughts about the conduct of a friend on a public message board.

If I put myself in his shoes, and if I were a personal friend of Will, I might have a similar reticence.

And I have to say, in all fairness, that I have heard directly from others who find Will's posts offensive, and even misogynistic; and who have also met Will in real life; and they tend to agree that Will up-close and personal is a very different, and more positive, experience from reading his words on a message board.

But as for myself, being no friend of Will, I have no problem posting I find him boorish and substantially less than a gentleman.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:24 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
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I was able to unveil the correct meaning of the Nephitic characters from Book of Mormon reproduced in a list of so many types of them, by Joseph Smith who did the copy, and put them under the title of "CARACTORS" (a not English name, but alike NEPHITIC, Latin, extinct Sabellicus) and sent to USA scientist ANTHON. Thus the usual name Anthon's caractors given to such list of characters I was able to translate and published some 10 years ago, even in LDS sites. It was possible to see that such characters were exactly the same, identical, of Sabellicus language in use in some part of Italy, as found in Tombs discovered and unearthed exactly in the year it was published the first edition of Book of Mormon. I published on this, with pictures and comparisons, in the LDS site MormonDialogue.org (1921...). I was working in Italy when I discovered about and that words of such Sabellicus are those of Book of Mormon partly or not translated, as Moroni (Morone, Morroni, Morrone), which was a popular name.

I retired and I decided to continue the works and research on the translation of the CARACTORS. Such was a Joseph Smith's gathering of equal characters but with distinct styles (including "fonts"). Thus I decided to solve the ENIGMA of what would be the contents of The Kinderhook Plates. Not taking into consideration if they were (yet are) correct ones, or if they nowadays are just hoax. I was interested in examining if the CHARACTERS were "reasonable, trustable", even if they had been made copy from the original and correct true brass plates and "photocopied" on false brass material, modern plates, hoax. But having trustable original information.

Thus I did quite alike I did and first reported some 10 years ago. I did a research to see if the plates had a trustable set of characters that I could translated to MODERN and consistent CHARACTERS. Like I had done with CARACTORS, set of not so old Nephitic characters: 600 BC was the match with Sabellicus, as from tombs in Italy. Knowing that it was found the town NeFich (written exactly that way; phonetically translation becomes NePHich) in Egypt, in the way to Jerusalem. A town found in old map of Egypt and yet alive. Thus NeF-ites lived in Egypt. Nefich means ch=property of Nefi's people. Nowadays has an Arab name: N-A-fich. Little changes

It is amazing that KINDERHOOK plates were not yet translated in some rational way, so simple and easy and fast is the translation. There was just a "little problem" for the translator. The use of some DUMB (silent) straight lines (sometimes a little curved). But that was for a clear SAFETY REASON, as of SLAVES trying to avoid their MASTERS knowing what things they were writing and their messages they were exchanging among other groups. They used the SAME PROCEDURE of safety we use nowadays as to avoid "computers" reading what we want to avoid them "tampering" our private HUMAN DOCUMENTS, as to SPY our human private information, as codes, key numbers, etc. Even to become member of this FORUM I had to identify the correct letters of this set of letters rotated to the left and to the right and the PROTO-NEPHITES did the same, and even putting characters upside-down and making them in FLIPPED position. SECURITY REASON. But if you translated CARACTORS set of characters, it is quite easy to UNVEIL such "tricks". Also considering Sabellicus' also.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/83a14150113f7dd22fcc5ee0aeed0992ac39fabe8c97e39eb33b29292b3c14f44g.jpg
Image

You can see ROTATION of characters to right and left (clockwise and anti-clockwise) and you can see the DUMB lines, some touching the characters. The same SECURITY procedure is used in KINDERHOOK plates, because they were at the end of LEBANON (PHOENICIA) phase to entering into GRECIA (Joel 3:6). The characters are basically of Phoenician origin, but already with the "basic features" of the Nephitic Language that was used through Italy, up it was ERASED by the Romans in some 5 centuries B.C. because of Political Reasons (erase their memories of PAST as SLAVES in Greece and Phoenicia). Thus all in Sabellicus was "erased, exterminated" from memory and physically. Only information well saved in well earthed (covered) tombs survived. There is none relationship between Sabellicus and Latin. Latin is Greek classic.

Translation of PROTO-NEPHITIC (very early version of Nephitic, probably it was organized in Phoenicia, Joel 3:6) then is very easy and very fast. All 12 plates can be translated in just one working day...

See just one plate before translation:

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/3c209f27c55afb0c09031c6598229a7e43ccf7eb5623f7989a8e50c84c14de8d6g.jpg Click on URL to see very enlarged PLATE. The numbers were provided, as I did with CHARACTORS, to locate the position of each CHARACTER, as to provide DIDACTIC explanation about the TRANSLATION that was provided: rotation and FLIP+ DUMB

Image

And next you can see the result of TRANSLATION. It is not PERFECT, but it is already a FIRST GUESS for students go on.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/42633e5ba681c21a6bb3d3dac7610282fb611377c610942a830c698fb22cb9a46g.jpg Click and see the translation very much enlarged.

Image

The addition of DUMB lines ("silent") and ROTATION and FLIP of characters made them so SECRET and that was the intention in the past days of slavery..., that nobody was able to DECIPHER them... It is the same with text that is written with the CODES USED to SCREEN candidates to become members of this group. With so strange characters for sure you would say, in future, that our characters are impossible to be read... They are written in some strange language.

It was a very secret language, used by LDS of early 2010, in their secret combinations and sites.

Best personal regards,


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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:41 pm 
Valiant B

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:54 pm
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Also the plate nr. 2, before translation (just after receiving the numbers):
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/d82b6d99901f08d14bb3fb3e336d30c1db5ecc160ed9e8dd4c78fe812e92c3666g.jpg Click on URL and see very enlarged image.

Image

Next it is shown the TRANSLATED characters of proto-primitive Nephitic characters. They are mainly (almost) Phoenician alike nature and aspect, but not as "organized" as phoenician, but quite like "disorder" with a goal to provide teaching and examples for the user of the manual. Thus this was mainly a didactic material. As to show the same character affected by the "dumb line" and next to it without such line or rotated or subject to flip or by both conditions and sizes.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/8f877ff07e311f3173b859a0dc05cb4be8b0ef4380299155697bd670d04489b26g.jpg Click over the URL to see very enlarged image.

Image

With best personal regards, ELY-SAB, in Nephitic SAB-ELY.


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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:14 pm 
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consiglieri wrote:
And I have to say, in all fairness, that I have heard directly from others who find Will's posts offensive, and even misogynistic; and who have also met Will in real life; and they tend to agree that Will up-close and personal is a very different, and more positive, experience from reading his words on a message board.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri


So up-close and in person Will and Nomad are entirely more personable than portrayed on this board. I suppose that is a a very powerful tool in the hands of a skilled Caractor.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:46 pm 
Valiant B

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How to use the translation procedure, being disclosed, for CHARACTERS originated from very ANCIENT NEPHITIC similar from KINDERHOOK plates and similar so ANCIENT sources?

Next we are to provide a PRACTICAL CASE, with one WORD that has an age of approximately some 500 B.C. (maybe a little more or less). I am not as rich as BYU to provide precise and scientific date of burial.

You can see that the WORD is in NEPHITIC alike of very OLD AGE, much more AGED than what provided in the TOMB and MOUND from where it came the KINDERHOOK plates. In fact such set of TOMBS were discovered in the year the Book of Mormon received its first edition and the tombs are sited very far away. Nobody would create hoax with the contents and words and texts that were discovered... In fact much ot that was stolen, as took place with USA "Indian Mounds".

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/4bd4878ded7ee3a5ca78fbce626e0e1bffab3992e0ececb9930cb02acc7eefa86g.jpg

You can see the PROCEDURES for making the TRANSLATION of the CHARACTERS from very OLD and ANGED and ANCIENT Nephitic alike TOMB, carved CHARACTERS on STONE of a TOMB of some 500 B.C., to convert them into STANDAR NEPHITIC CHARACTERS (in the upper part of the document) as copied by Joseph Smith from the Gold Plates of The Book of Mormon.

Such information he reproduced on the document ANTHON's "CARACTORS" that is easily available in Internet.

As you can see the CARACTORS are perfectly matching with the material originated from the Tombs unearthed from similar data (of some 600 B.C.). The match is more than the PERFECTION (the meaning of the words is the same also) and thus we have another way for a direction translation of so ANCIENT CHARACTERS, as KINDERHOOK's, directly into MODERN nowadays CHARACTERS.

Being translated CHARACTERS into MODERN CHARACTERS, it becomes quite simple to make the translation of WORDS and PHRASES, as they are composed of CHARACTERS and then we are dealing with CHARACTERS that we understand. Also we can deal with SOUNDS, with the PHONETICS as they are linked to the CHARACTERS (also).

That was the reasoning with CHAMPOLION, in 1822, when he provided SCIENTIFIC and MODERN translation for HIEROGLYPHS from OLD EGYPT into modern Characters (letters) that people coult gather into words and phrases and get reliable translations. That ended the COMIC phase

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/2f6077106cdc69cb5ea10625277ce3d4727861bae3e270e45de6db84484cbfaa6g.jpg

I hope it be helpful in removing so great mysteries and unveils on momonism related to so basic things. As they were in related to Ancient Egypt and things: were based on the figures carved or painted on monuments and papirus, that were like mute "comic books". Without legends. Quite like Donald Duck and Uncle Scroodge, McDuck T_A_L_E_S...

Their Egyptian Ancient history, before the great archeology pre-Champolion era, was as "funny - Comic" as some we hear from some academic centers reading "COMICS literatures for kids". As that Meso-America is the Nephitic Empire... When Joseph Smith was very clear. Nephitic Empire was from New York State (including Cumorah Hill, on shore=nearby of EAST SEA = Lake Ontario, the only one CUMORAH he knew) up to the Rocky Mountains (the only one he knew). Kingdom included many things as Kinderhook Mounds...

But if our friends don't like these only SPECULATIONS about what could be the TRANSLATION of the contents of the CHARACTERS on KINDERHOOK Plates, please, let us consider them as not existing. Because they are a HOAX and/or because it was decided we are to consider them as not convenient for our societ. Thus we ignore them.


Last edited by ELYSAB on Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:16 am 
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consiglieri wrote:
Although I am no more able to read the intents of Dr. Peterson's heart than anybody else, I think he probably finds many of Will's posts here offensive.


I would put real money on the correctness of that statement. No doubt that Dr. Peterson abhors and deeply regrets Will Schryver's boorishness. Unfortunately, his unswerving loyalty to fellow apologists and already stuffed email prevent him voicing publicly his true opinions about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:47 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
No doubt that Dr. Peterson abhors and deeply regrets Will Schryver's boorishness.


Yup. Based on the style and content of his writing as I have seen it for a number of years, I'd bet on that too.

Kishkumen wrote:
Unfortunately, his unswerving loyalty to fellow apologists and already stuffed email prevent him voicing publicly his true opinions about it.


That seems very likely. If so, it would seem that DCP thinks he is doing right by refraining for giving unbelievers support in their attacks on a fellow-believer, even if the fellow-believer in question does things he would never dream of doing.

Well, I suppose that on balance I'd prefer to believe that DCP feels that way than to have to conclude that he thinks an adult man ought to address women posters in the way that Schryver has done.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:03 pm 
Valiant B

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It appears that all Kinderhook plates were written according the science of cryptography and its rules to avoid people easy understand written messages.

It appears to be so great involved science was the result of some planned work of betraying LDS wises and scientists from BYU. Because they were not able to break cryptographic keys applied. Otherwise, what was the benefit of inventing so false language that could not be read due false characters created by cryptography?

Maybe the plates themselves had been replaced by hoax ones, during the great confusion period after the death of the prophet Joseph. And if that is the case, maybe we are mixing two distinct things. The plates themselves and their contents. Quite like the same problem we have with the Gold Plates and their Characters Contents (as the sample of them, available through the "CARACTORS"...). It is possible to have a TRUE set of CHARACTERS (from original 6 KINDERHOOKs) on 6 HOAX Kinderhook Plates or even on none existing Kinderhook Plates (as it is the case, if we have none more "available", as is the case of Golden Plates).

If in fact the Kinderhook's CHARACTERS are really FALSE, being just HOAX, it is the result of so very MARVELOUS WORK of true WISES, VERY LEARNED and so GREATEST SCIENTISTS, being able to create so perfect CHARACTERS. Work of so greatest Head of Linguist Department of Greatest Universities of the World of those Days...

That is according to the LINGUISTIC of SABELLIANS and based on TOMBS being unveiled and unearthed in the very year of the first edition of Book of Mormon (very far away). Then with SCIENTIFIC WORK of DECIPHERING same CHARACTERS yet to be MADE there by SCIENTISTS... Such SCIENTISTS were to match Tomb Characters with CARACTORS: matching them with PERFECTION, as those present in KINDERHOOK Plates... How could if they were "HOAX" and SABELLICUN was yet unknown as a language? Yet to be unveiled?

For sure that would be so great miracle for science and human knowledge when wises of outside and inside religion declared plaates to be "hoax". And it is known in advance things that were to take place in many years AHEAD. Unless with God’s revelation... Maybe it was "pressed" to know that plates were rebuilt as "hoax". Who were interested in exterminating Nephitic Empire in USA and Kinderhook plates altogether? Them? What did take place in 1921 that support the "decision" to make the Kinderhook plates a "hoax", be them true or false? And to exterminate such possible Nephitic Place?
http://www.mormondialogue.%20org/topic/54967-1921-book-of-mormon-geography-hearings/. In 1921 was the "decision" to move the Nephitic Empire from outside USA (Cumorah Hill to Rocky Mountains) to Meso-America.

If that is the case, all the posted material MUST be removed as some intellectual sterile valueless SPECULATION as it is then something about things that can'T be evaluated or discussed. As people say, is so prohibited as speculating on “sex of the Angels”.


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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:33 pm 
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Kishkumen wrote:
consiglieri wrote:
Although I am no more able to read the intents of Dr. Peterson's heart than anybody else, I think he probably finds many of Will's posts here offensive.


I would put real money on the correctness of that statement. No doubt that Dr. Peterson abhors and deeply regrets Will Schryver's boorishness. Unfortunately, his unswerving loyalty to fellow apologists and already stuffed email prevent him voicing publicly his true opinions about it.

In light of several things he’s said lately, I’m not convinced that you are right about Peterson and his “private” feelings about Schryver. I’m sure it’s true that some people at the MI have their heads screwed on right when it comes to Schryver, but I’m not persuaded that DCP is one of them.

We have to remember that DCP has been in a position to see more of Schryver’s outrageous behavior than probably anyone else at the MI. The two of them have posted here since this board started up. I don’t remember Peterson ever publicly making any objections to anything Schryver had to say. Do you? If he did, I never saw it. That tells me that Peterson is totally fine with Schryver calling women “c***s” and whores and engaging in verbal sexual assault of Kimberly Ann and others.

Look at these recent quotes from DCP:

Quote:
I too have praised things that Will has written, and I don't think that he deserves the total-war obloquy that he's received here.

Link


Quote:
I'm aware of no real evidence for misogyny on his part.

MsJack alluded to my supposed serenity about Will Schryver's alleged mistreatment of women. It's a perfectly cogent response to such a comment to reply that I've seen none.

Link


Quote:
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

I've seen no serious evidence that Will Schryver is a misogynist.

I'll repeat that: I've seen no serious evidence that Will Schryver is a misogynist.

None.

Perhaps you folks should reprise a few hundred of the posts that were devoted to that endlessly fascinating subject here a few months back. They didn't convince me then, and they probably won't convince me now (particularly since I won't even read them this time), but they certainly revved up several among the dozen or so critics who regularly post here. Got the old adrenaline pumping.

Link


Just yesterday, Kevin Graham challenged Peterson directly on the question of Schryver:

Quote:
Xander, on 20 August 2011 - 06:51 AM, said:
You won't even condemn the actions of Will Schryver, whose behavior was so abhorrent that the authorities at the Maxwell Institute threw him off their publication schedule because they wanted nothing to do with him or his antics.


And Peterson directly replied:

Quote:
I think Will Schryver has been unjustly demonized.

Link


You be the judge, but I don’t see DCP as someone who is very bothered by what normal thinking moral people would consider the clear-cut case of Schryver’s vicious attacks on women that we’ve seen on this message board over the years.

By the way, do we really know, like Kevin wrote, that “the Maxwell Institute threw him off their publication schedule because they wanted nothing to do with him or his antics”? How do we know that is true?

You know, if it is true, I actually regret that it happened. I wish MsJack had never brought this stuff to their attention. I think it would have been far more damaging to the MI if they were to publish Schryver’s nonsense. Can you just imagine? It’s one thing to publish strong arguments by someone whose character is obviously suspect. It would be another thing altogether to publish the kinds of things we’ve seen Schryver argue over the years and then have them be forced to defend it. If it is true that MsJack’s exposè caused the MI to dump Schryver, then I am sorry to hear it.


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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:27 pm 
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Kishkumen wrote:
consiglieri wrote:
Although I am no more able to read the intents of Dr. Peterson's heart than anybody else, I think he probably finds many of Will's posts here offensive.


I would put real money on the correctness of that statement. No doubt that Dr. Peterson abhors and deeply regrets Will Schryver's boorishness. Unfortunately, his unswerving loyalty to fellow apologists and already stuffed email prevent him voicing publicly his true opinions about it.


I don't think he cares at all and doesn't give it much thought at all. In fact, no one really gives it much thought in real life practice. Maybe on the board some people do because they are reminded of it. But in real life, very few are thinking of will and his way of posting. I really do think that very few people actually care at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:02 pm 
Valiant B

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The document "CARACTORS", that Joseph Smith wrote himself making copy of variable randomic CHARACTERS (not words/phrases) from GOLD PLATES of Book of Mormon, was prepared to send to a US scientist, Mr. ANTHON.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Caractors_large.jpg/800px-Caractors_large.jpg
It was made the copy and send to see if he was able to IDENTIFY and DECIPHER such CHARACTERS titled "CARACTORS". As to identify their origin (source), language, date, meaning, etc.

See the history of the origin of the CARACTORS document and more:
http://www.answers.com/topic/anthon-transcript

It is very clear that Joseph was asking for CHARACTERS identification as the title of the LIST of "copied elements" was titled "CARACTORS". And the TITLE-head name "CARACTORS" was very clear that the LIST was about CHARACTERS, not the usual ENGLISH ONES. And Joseph was not an ignorant person. He used CARACTORS to provide a CLUE for the USA scientist about the LANGUAGE of the people who made such type of Ancient CARACTORS. Even now USA scientists don't use "J.S. CLUES". They try to reason wrong as ANTHON did so long ago...

What I did? I considered that Joseph Smith was a HONEST and CLEVER scientist, who gave a great CLUE to a good scientist. I was working in Italy in 1998. I noticed so many words from very ancient Sabellicus are equal or very similar to those words in the Book of Mormon: in the way they are written or are just language corruption and/or with same meaning. Thus I decided to have a deeper look into the characters meaning and way of write for both very ancient language of same days (as 600 B.C.). I used the "CARACTORS" list, in LATIN-like languages (the modern result of SABELLICUS language).

Thus, instead of placing the Title-name (head-name) with CHARACTERS (from English) Joseph Smith selected the Title-name (head name) with "CARACTORS", which is quite like the French name "CARACTERE" also in Portuguese...

Thus, through the name, Joseph Smith was providing a CLUE that the CHARACTERS from the OLD NEPHITIC LANGUAGE had come from a language something alike the FRENCH LANGUAGE, thus something from ANCESTOR of the LATIN. Thus from the SABELLICUS language.

Because I am not as silly as people from some USA University, but from Univ. of California, Berkeley, immediately I decided to decipher J.Smith’s CARACTORS. As now also I decided to decipher encrypted Kinderhook. In fact the best name is "Joseph Smith's CARACTORS", as is J.S. who made the copy and created the title CARACTORS heading over the COPY of characters: the CARACTORS.

Knowing it was just a fast work of comparing the J.S. CARACTERS with the SABELLICUS's CHARACTERS from several places and dates, it was a quite easy and fast work, as it was also again doing similar work with the KINDERHOOK PLATES. It is long available in Web, even of LDS people. It is a pity that GEOCITES ended and with it so many sites. It was told they could be rescued, but it is unpractical...

Now I'm using in conjunction J.S. CARACTORS and the SABELLICUS's characters, mainly those for the desired period of time. As Kinderhook Plates are related to VERY ANCIENT PERIOD, before the Classic Nephitic (before 600 B.C.), I had to use data for very Ancient Sabellicus, as Sabinicus (very good data available) and Phoenician (more or less for the period of departure of Israelites to Greece (in Joel 3:6) and little of Greek language.

Now I hope to modernise the meaning of the "TRANSLATION" of the CARACTORS to modern CHARACTERS for also consider the meaning of VERY ANCIENT CHARACTERS from the KINDERHOOK PLATES. It is like to have a modern DICTIONARY and then you have some addendum lines for the meaning of each very old words (in our case, Characters, quite like Phoenician alike influenced Ancient Words). Thus we may gather their influence into “as one”. The new Book will become thick...


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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:57 pm 
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Persephone wrote:
In light of several things he’s said lately, I’m not convinced that you are right about Peterson and his “private” feelings about Schryver.


Yeah, I don't really know, obviously. I get the sense that Daniel and Will don't share our view of what constitutes misogyny. So, by our standards we view these actions as misogynistic, while they feel no obligation to agree. I have found arguing with these guys on moral grounds to be largely pointless, because our values are really different in important ways. I don't assume that my values are necessarily better, but on this issue I am uncompromising.


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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:00 pm 
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why me wrote:
I don't think he cares at all and doesn't give it much thought at all. In fact, no one really gives it much thought in real life practice. Maybe on the board some people do because they are reminded of it. But in real life, very few are thinking of will and his way of posting. I really do think that very few people actually care at all.


Your moniker is so appropriate. I feel it applies to me every time I read one of your vapid posts. Then I remember that I willfully chose to waste my time on your drivel and thus ought not to feel sorry for myself for having endured it.


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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:36 pm 
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Kishkumen wrote:
why me wrote:
I don't think he cares at all and doesn't give it much thought at all. In fact, no one really gives it much thought in real life practice. Maybe on the board some people do because they are reminded of it. But in real life, very few are thinking of will and his way of posting. I really do think that very few people actually care at all.


Your moniker is so appropriate. I feel it applies to me every time I read one of your vapid posts. Then I remember that I willfully chose to waste my time on your drivel and thus ought not to feel sorry for myself for having endured it.


I hear ya, Kish. I think it was either Pokatator or Malkie who first noted this by now common response.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:26 pm 
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PROGRESS OF TRANSLATION of "CARACTORS" (and NEPHITIC language)

In 1998 I was working in Italy and in a very Ancient cemetery for my Ancestors nearby Venice I noticed the "surnames" had some "link" with my very ancient people from Rome (from Christ's days). I didn't know both were of Sabellicus' "tribe, language". Making a search in Rome, to understand it, I also noticed that our Ancient names were the same in Book of Mormon and with the same meaning and spelling or little corruption. Moroni had been very popular name among us at Christ's days. And also other B.o.M. names... Even I could guess some "mistakes" in Book of Mormon translation (already in 1998...), due PHONETIC translation.

I immediately wrote letters and e-mail to some important SUD and LDS friends making the SCIENTIFIC REPORT of the discovery... From some I received the "silence", from others that it was a "HOAX": image, dared! I saved the letters, as if the cultural inferiority judgment.

As a scientist I tried to discover what would be the probable route followed from there to Jerusalem, considering the enemies on the way in 600 B.C. For sure they had followed to big Sardinia Island and then sailed to African coast and coasted to discharge of Nile River into Mediterranean and upstream. I got good maps.

Very soon appeared the location of NEFICH a town meaning PROPERTY OF NEFITES, bordering the huge navigation channel built (by Nephites...) by order of Pharaoh Nechoh II (in 600 B.C.) to navigate huge sail ships (heavy commercial cargo, as SUEZ) from Mediterranean Sea to Indic Ocean (to India, China) passing through Red Sea and Arabian Sea... I was right. Nephites lived first in Egypt before go to Jerusalem... Ishmael should have been a great trader chief of Arabians.

Thus I decided to go on with the RESEARCHEs on Nephites LANGUAGE and CHARACTERS. Thus I went on with CARACTORS, list of CHARACTERS provided (made copy from Gold Plates) by Joseph Smith.

My sister is an Italian Citizenship. It was not difficult, for a scientist, to get cooperation of Italian museums, Italian research centers, universities and even from Vatican, for so great cause: unveiling LDS.

Thus some result started to COME OUT. I was ordered to STOP and DESTROY all I had done. Quite like in the days of Galileo Galilee, when some science truth can't spread. Without an accusation or any trial I was "fired" of my calls and prohibited to go to the temple or even to provide any speech or testimony before the congregation. I was dead.

We may understand why one of the first complete Unveiling of CARACTORS TRANSLATION presented so many restrictions to some people as if inviting them to not read and not use my TRANSLATION. As they were not willing that I could do also nothing toward the LDS.

Many years, same person came and told that all those restrictions had ended. I didn't receive a pardon, as I was not declared guilty of something in some trial. Thus I guess you must forget about all the comments that are on the next TRANSLATION related to "CARACTORS".

More modern and revised TRANSLATION that was in GEOCITES, got lost with end of Geocities... No problem. A brandy new one, hybrid with KINDERHOOK, is being provided=made. Thus we will have MORE MODERN TRANSLATED CARACTORS together with VERY OLD TRANSLATED "ANCIENT CARACTORS" (KINDERHOOK), as if in a two SET that we can flip horizontally.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/2f70b625ce8167780ec523104786be8da6a12ad3447efac32cdfbd1f6b4ba76e6g.jpg
IT IS A VERY ENLARGE FIRST (yet rough, it was not yet revised, "angry") TRANSLATION OF "CARACTORS". CLICK ON URL.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:21 pm 
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Good news. The good translation for Joseph Smith's CARACTORS was lost with the end of GEOCITES.

But now a new and much better and much more perfect TRANSLATION is underway. A copy of it is provided just below, in the two first lines.

I noticed something AMAZING. When I made the first translations, I didn't know about Kinderhook plates. But know that I already know about Kinderhook translation, it is very clear that such Kinderhook plates are TRUE and HONEST. Because they "fit" with CARACTORS as they have things that are in the list of CARACTORS.

As nobody could understand CARACTORS, mainly the meaning of CARACTORS to provide rational changes on them to "create others on Kinderhook" (that would be the task of very intelligent and well informed secret service communication division...), it is evident that none person or even most well learned and wise scientist could invent new Characters. The maximum he could do would make copies of Gold Plates into Brass Plates, with the same type of Characters under the same rules: it is not what I noticed. But there are so many information in common, that points to a COMMON SOURCE, but not COPY. First of all the meaning of CARACTORS should have been made available to the person creasing the HOAX: not the case. It never was. Even so the characters are very similar, sometimes in DUPLICATE and had been spread on brass plates under some intelligent plan and for some evident advanced and planned purpose, quite like of didactic nature... We can say the same about the existence of the list CARACTORS.


http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/8e5cc860d5cafaa3279ffa0f652e491c036f953af1ac53f064876378a3f49b166g.jpg
Click on the URL to see the image quite well enlarged. You can already see each CHARACTER (in fact "CARACTOR"), and hand-written by Joseph Smith, copied from GOLD PLATES, and written over such document that was sent to the USA scientist named ANTHON to try to decipher it and provide more information about the Nephite civilization.

I suggest you coppy the file and introduce it into some picture viewer program that enlarge the image (even Microsoft provide the Picture Manager...) so you can see each CHARACTER very enlarged and the corresponding MODERN (nowadays) CHARACTER. Joseph Smith wrote including some WORDS. You can see them in the already translated lines. You can see in the VERY ANCIENT NEPHITIC, the same used in KINDERHOOK PLATES, some CHARACTERS that are exactly the SAME as they are over the BRASS PLATES. Should it be COINCIDENCE?

NOTICE that both in CARACTORS document and in KINDERHOOK plates it was used the PROCEDURE of SUPERIMPOSING CHARACTERS, as if to turning it IMPOSSIBLE for commom normal biased scientists translating such BOTH MATERIAL. Because they are both requiring "UNLOCKING, DECIFRING" the information that is quite like encoded. It is for smarts.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:08 pm 
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Linguistically, what's the difference between a "caractor" and a "character?"

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:47 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
Linguistically, what's the difference between a "caractor" and a "character?"

If ELYSAB was a real character usurping my discovery BECAUSE he got close lately, but no cigar, he would not be as he is, a caracter who really does not exist. Got it? I bet it is crapping the heck out of him. DANG!

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:08 am 
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Several posters on this board, including Trevor, Dr. Shades, Blixa, and Dr. Peterson, are among my real-life friends.

Trevor has been a friend since shortly after my mission, and I count him as one of the best friends I have ever had. When I reembraced my faith and decided I needed to return to the Church, Trevor is one of the first people I told. Trevor seemed far less surprised by the return of my faith than I was. And to say that he was, and is, supportive would be dramatic understatement. We talk a great deal, as we did last night, discussing--very positively--Hugh Nibley , who has had a significant influence on us both, and how Mormonism follows patterns of religion from the ancient world.

Dr. Shades has been a friend since high school. He, like me, was a very devout kid, and a thinker. We met through one of my best friends from growing up and used to talk a lot about religion, history, and how hot that other friend's sister was....

I've been privileged to be very close to Blixa, who is both brilliant and kind-hearted. She has been supportive and remained a good friend through my reembrace of Mormonism and return to the Church, even though her own experience of Mormondom has been much less positive.

Dr. Peterson I've known nearly as long as I've known Trevor. We used to run into each other and have long and satisfying conversations a lot at the BYU Bookstore. When we later encountered each other again on the boards, we were frequently at loggerheads, since I was then a nonbeliever and disliked his style of posting. But a few years ago while I was still a nonbeliever (an atheist) we ran into each other at the BYU library He was quite friendly to me despite my having gone after him a great deal on the boards, and we had a great conversation. Shortly thereafter I posted my impression on one of the boards (probably FAIR) that Dr. Peterson was someone who emphasizes the most generous and expansive aspects of Mormonism, affirming the truth in other faiths, fully accepting science, and holding out a near-universalist hope that God's mercy will ultimately embrace perhaps everyone. My experience with him since has only strengthened this view, and it is one that can be confirmed for anyone who listens to his recent Mormon Stories podcasts.
In some ways, these friends of mine are very different from one another, even within the set of nonbelievers. Blixa and Shades, for instance, are respectively Marxist and libertarian, a much poorer fit, imo, than Mormon and Evangelical. And these friends have each had their own, very different path of engagement with Mormonism.

But I wonder what would happen if all these friends of mine met one another in person? Knowing them as I do, I picture some very interesting conversation and friendly interaction. Trevor and Dan, for instance, in person each the very picture of pleasantness, share common interests in antiquity, friends among Dr. Peterson's colleagues, interest in Mormon history and scripture, and a great deal else.

If politics makes strange bed fellows, might it not be that the Internet debate over Mormon apologetics and criticism make strange enemies, setting at enmity people who share common friends and would get along fine, and in some cases exceptionally well, in other contexts? Unless I am an extremely poor judge of character and of my own friends, it does just that.

Don

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:45 am 
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onandagus wrote:
In some ways, these friends of mine are very different from one another, even within the set of nonbelievers. Blixa and Shades, for instance, are respectively Marxist and libertarian, a much poorer fit, imo, than Mormon and Evangelical. And these friends have each had their own, very different path of engagement with Mormonism.
Don


Blixa is a Marxist? I never seen her Marxisms in her posts. This was a surprise for me. Blixa, what type of Marxist are you? Have you read Monthly Review?

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver from Kinderhook Bomb
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:59 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
why me wrote:
I don't think he cares at all and doesn't give it much thought at all. In fact, no one really gives it much thought in real life practice. Maybe on the board some people do because they are reminded of it. But in real life, very few are thinking of will and his way of posting. I really do think that very few people actually care at all.


Your moniker is so appropriate. I feel it applies to me every time I read one of your vapid posts. Then I remember that I willfully chose to waste my time on your drivel and thus ought not to feel sorry for myself for having endured it.


I just don't think that dan gives it much thought. And why would he? Most people are too concerned with life to give Will's posting style much thought or for that matter, anyone's posting style.

For example, I believe that most people on the forum are good people and their aggressive internet persona is not who they are in real life. I am sure that it is the same with Will. But why would I be thinking about Polygamy Porter's posting style or anyone else's posting style?

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