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 Post subject: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:38 pm 
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With All the rhetoric admonishing its member to build their faith on a firm foundation, why is Mormonism built on such a sandy foundation full of holes, half-truths, edited history and selective memories.
Were Mormonism what it claims to be, it would truly rock as a religion. The personal sacrifices necessary to live Mormonism would be worth the price one pays were it really able to produce the promises that it makes to its membership.

While I understand that the church never anticipated the impact of the information age when every single skeleton bone in its closet could be exposed with the single click of a key board…if it had been what it claimed it wouldn’t have had to have those bones in a closet in the first place.
In the morning Saturday session of general conference a speaker again reiterated the need to build ones faith on a firm foundation…perhaps the church itself should have heeded that advice …perhaps then it wouldn’t be bleeding membership out the back door.

Perhaps the words of Thomas Edison may have merit for the church when he said… “For faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction - faith in fiction is a damnable false hope."

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:56 pm 
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True Mormonism is firm and will always be that way. When one has a personal relationship with God; and one seeks, sees and speaks with God that is the only foundation that Mormonism needs.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:40 pm 
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Watch out for those pesky weak pillars in that Book of Mormon foundation- DNA, native american language evolution, steel, silk and swords. BH Roberts lost his testimony over the last 5 -DNA would have put a stake in the heart of his testimony. did not seem to bother the brethern in 1921 who testified that the "chruch is true' after Roberts gave them 400 pages of evidence to the contrary in a 2 plus day session.

Every current apostle knows the above but the "Church is Too Big To Fail" so the church now plods on with the "double' hearts of the so-called apostles as its foundation.

Sad for the members and scary for those duplicitious bas&*rds!


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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:24 pm 
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Neither firm nor sandy. The LDS church was cleverly built on a very malleable anamorphic foundation that can shift any way it needs to in order to keep the structure intact. The wicked genius of modern day revelation is that it can erase and rewrite anything at will.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Tobin wrote:
True Mormonism is firm and will always be that way. When one has a personal relationship with God; and one seeks, sees and speaks with God that is the only foundation that Mormonism needs.

Thomas Edison wrote:
faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Craig Paxton wrote:
With All the rhetoric admonishing its member to build their faith on a firm foundation, why is Mormonism built on such a sandy foundation full of holes, half-truths, edited history and selective memories.
Were Mormonism what it claims to be, it would truly rock as a religion. The personal sacrifices necessary to live Mormonism would be worth the price one pays were it really able to produce the promises that it makes to its membership.

While I understand that the church never anticipated the impact of the information age when every single skeleton bone in its closet could be exposed with the single click of a key board…if it had been what it claimed it wouldn’t have had to have those bones in a closet in the first place.
In the morning Saturday session of general conference a speaker again reiterated the need to build ones faith on a firm foundation…perhaps the church itself should have heeded that advice …perhaps then it wouldn’t be bleeding membership out the back door.

Perhaps the words of Thomas Edison may have merit for the church when he said… “For faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction - faith in fiction is a damnable false hope."


Even though the LDS say Christ this and Jesus that they do not and never have built the Church on the Rock of Christ which can only be the event of the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. This they ignore entirely and lift up only their own uniqueness being themuch vaunted Only True Church status clueless what must validate the same. It is therefore floating in the air having no foundation regardless how spacious they build.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Hades wrote:
Tobin wrote:
True Mormonism is firm and will always be that way. When one has a personal relationship with God; and one seeks, sees and speaks with God that is the only foundation that Mormonism needs.

Thomas Edison wrote:
faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.

Clearly you don't understand English. Seeking, seeing and speaking with God is no longer a belief in God, but a sure knowledge of the reality and understanding of God. As I pointed out, this is the only firm foundation that a Mormon really needs.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:38 pm 
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Tobin wrote:
Clearly you don't understand English. Seeking, seeing and speaking with God is no longer a belief in God, but a sure knowledge of the reality and understanding of God. As I pointed out, this is the only firm foundation that a Mormon really needs.

Tobin, you greatly error not knowing the scripture neither the power of godliness. The Jews all saw and spoke with God for many years. His own villiage took him to the brow of the hill to cast him down headlong. The fed five thousand forsook him when he tested them telling them that he would ascend up to where he was before....meaninf seated upon the very throne of power. Then after hearing his words for three years and after witnessing that which no man had done before they crucufued him. And the sheep denied him and were scattered.

Then after this same God taught the certain Jews who knew him for forty days Jesus commanded that the continue with one accord until the receive the promise of the Father which is the baptism of fir and of the Holy Ghost.

Seeing and speaking with God will only condem those who knowingly refuse to humble themselves and complete the gospel in power unto the regeneration of having been begotten of God in the grace and name of Christ.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:51 pm 
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Nightlion wrote:
Tobin wrote:
Clearly you don't understand English. Seeking, seeing and speaking with God is no longer a belief in God, but a sure knowledge of the reality and understanding of God. As I pointed out, this is the only firm foundation that a Mormon really needs.

Tobin, you greatly error not knowing the scripture neither the power of godliness. The Jews all saw and spoke with God for many years. His own villiage took him to the brow of the hill to cast him down headlong. The fed five thousand forsook him when he tested them telling them that he would ascend up to where he was before....meaninf seated upon the very throne of power. Then after hearing his words for three years and after witnessing that which no man had done before they crucufued him. And the sheep denied him and were scattered.
Not at all. Having a sure knowledge fo the Lord does not mean that you must do as the Lord asks. It in no way removes our ability to choose. After all, Satan was an Angel of God and in the very presence of God, yet he knowingly rebelled and turned away. So no, what I said is not a mistake at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:56 pm 
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Tobin you think this is a joke? What am I to make of it?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:00 pm 
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While I understand that the church never anticipated the impact of the information age when every single skeleton bone in its closet could be exposed with the single click of a key board…if it had been what it claimed it wouldn’t have had to have those bones in a closet in the first place.
In the morning Saturday session of general conference a speaker again reiterated the need to build ones faith on a firm foundation…perhaps the church itself should have heeded that advice …perhaps then it wouldn’t be bleeding membership out the back door.


And, having exhausted their playbook, they hit the resent button. What skeletons?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Nightlion wrote:
Tobin you think this is a joke? What am I to make of it?

No, I'm not joking. You may view my encouragement that others seek, see and speak with the Lord themselves as a mistake. I do not. I believe that is a necessary step to truly be a Mormon and true follower of the Lord. After all, when you really know and have seen the Lord, those that pretend to speak for the Lord are easily exposed. And remember Nightlion, ALL FALSE prophets preach and speak against seeking, seeing and speaking with the Lord ourselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:12 pm 
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Racer wrote:
The wicked genius of modern day revelation is that it can erase and rewrite anything at will.


This ability to alter and conceal was taken away by the internet. As the MD&D board would tell its readers, information regarding the warts exists as long as you look for it. Even information of Church business dealings and contracts will become more assessable in this age of encouraged intolerance.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:21 pm 
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Tobin wrote:
Nightlion wrote:
Tobin you think this is a joke? What am I to make of it?

No, I'm not joking. You may view my encouragement that others seek, see and speak with the Lord themselves as a mistake. I do not. I believe that is a necessary step to truly be a Mormon and true follower of the Lord. After all, when you really know and have seen the Lord, those that pretend to speak for the Lord are easily exposed. And remember Nightlion, ALL FALSE prophets preach and speak against seeking, seeing and speaking with the Lord ourselves.

LOL you absolute flake. You are making stuff up with a reckless abandon. Your judgment is as putrid as your inorance is now betrayed. God does not know you and you do not know God.

Why did you bring up Satan for your example.....eh?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:08 am 
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Tobin wrote:
True Mormonism is firm and will always be that way. When one has a personal relationship with God; and one seeks, sees and speaks with God that is the only foundation that Mormonism needs.


Actually, it also needs money.
Mormonism needs lots and lots of money for...well...well...okay, so we don't really know what it gets used for, but we know the Lord needs lots of it for Mormonism.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:46 am 
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Tobin wrote:
No, I'm not joking. You may view my encouragement that others seek, see and speak with the Lord themselves as a mistake. I do not. I believe that is a necessary step to truly be a Mormon and true follower of the Lord. After all, when you really know and have seen the Lord, those that pretend to speak for the Lord are easily exposed. And remember Nightlion, ALL FALSE prophets preach and speak against seeking, seeing and speaking with the Lord ourselves.

God isn't a Mormon, so if you had really seen him/her, you would know that.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:37 am 
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bcspace wrote:
And, having exhausted their playbook, they hit the resent button. What skeletons?

You know, the skeletons you claim to have answers to, but once cornered in a given thread, you exit only to spout the same tired tripe later on. Here's a few:

A completely incorrect translation of a common pagan papyrus Joseph Smith used as a vehicle to launch the Book of Abraham. How the supposed "scholars" who sell imaginary data to create seemingly plausible explanations for this is absurd. When one acknowledges the data that does exist, there is only one logical conclusion, which is the pagan papyrus was not what Joseph Smith claimed. That's the reason this skeleton remains locked up by the LDS church.

A pair of occult seer stones used to translate the Book of Mormon. The dark history of these stones is deemed "anti" to the believer in order to keep the truth from them. The incorrect dates used to insert "Urim and Thummim" into LDS history prior to 1833 is a good example of how this skeleton hides. Both of these skeletons are locked up in the LDS vault. The use of LDS art to depict the translation is an intentional ruse.

The truth about Joseph Smith's sexual adventures with teenage girls and other men's wives, all supposedly commanded by the Mormon God who later changed his mind.

The racist doctrine that didn't allow men of color to hold the priesthood, that is, until 1978 when the LDS God changed his mind. Pick and choose data you think can explain this, but if the "White and delightsome" skin mentioned in the original doctrine which was changed to Pure and delightsome isn't enough, acknowledging the change in 1978 should be, as a change isn't required if it didn't need to be changed.

The lack of any tangible evidence to support the historicity of the Book of Mormon. The supposed LDS scholars can attempt to whittle down the theoretically plausible places the evidence could possibly be found, but since it's fiction and doesn't exist, this fodder is used to paint the ruse that it could possibly exist.

Joseph Smith's belief in occult magic. One can ignore the Jupiter talisman, seer stones and even the documented digging up of Joseph's brother Alvin, but when it has to be relabeled as "folk magic" in order to mask it (thanks Mike Reed), there's a reason distortion needs to be used in an attempt to hide it.

I realize you'll spout the same tired rhetoric regarding how all these issues have been resolved in your mind bc, but what you can't ignore, well, at least a critical thought process can't ignore it, is the blatant attempts used by the LDS church to deceive regarding the truth. This is why the term "anti" is used to label the truth a lie and their websites are used as a vehicle to sell the deception.

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Last edited by thews on Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:11 am 
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Hades wrote:
Tobin wrote:
No, I'm not joking. You may view my encouragement that others seek, see and speak with the Lord themselves as a mistake. I do not. I believe that is a necessary step to truly be a Mormon and true follower of the Lord. After all, when you really know and have seen the Lord, those that pretend to speak for the Lord are easily exposed. And remember Nightlion, ALL FALSE prophets preach and speak against seeking, seeing and speaking with the Lord ourselves.

God isn't a Mormon, so if you had really seen him/her, you would know that.

Another English fail on your part. I didn't say he was. Do you even read my posts for content, or just make up a response based on your favorite color?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:03 am 
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thews wrote:
the documented digging up of Joseph's brother Alvin, but when it has to be relabeled as "folk magic" in order to mask it (thanks Mike Reed), there's a reason distortion needs to be used in an attempt to hide it.



What The F*** ???? I have never heard this one... He dug up Alvin corpse? Can you direct me to more info on this subject please...

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:08 am 
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Craig Paxton wrote:
thews wrote:
the documented digging up of Joseph's brother Alvin, but when it has to be relabeled as "folk magic" in order to mask it (thanks Mike Reed), there's a reason distortion needs to be used in an attempt to hide it.



What The F*** ???? I have never heard this one... He dug up Alvin corpse? Can you direct me to more info on this subject please...


Read the Salamander letter. Mark Hofmann is one of thew's reputable sources. He has in the past also cited Bugs Bunny and Eric Cartman.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Mormonism Built on a Firm or Sandy Foundation?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:28 am 
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Craig Paxton wrote:
thews wrote:
the documented digging up of Joseph's brother Alvin, but when it has to be relabeled as "folk magic" in order to mask it (thanks Mike Reed), there's a reason distortion needs to be used in an attempt to hide it.



What The F*** ???? I have never heard this one... He dug up Alvin corpse? Can you direct me to more info on this subject please...


See Early Mormonism and the Magic World View by D Michael Quinn. Pg 158-161

There is some evidence that Alvin was the 'key' that Joseph Smith was supposed to bring with him on his next visit to where the plates were buried before Moroni would give them to him. Alvin died before that could be accomplished. Rumors arose that he (Joseph Smith) would take his deceased brother's corpse with him to satisfy the requirement. Joseph Smith Senior had the body exhumed to prove that it had not been tampered with and published a notice in the local paper about the exhumation. Eventually Emma replaced Alvin as the necessary key to obtaining the gold plates.

I am curious to how, back then, having a body exhumed would prove the body hadn't been exhumed?

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