Here's a question: to what extent do people think that Will's comments re: Maxwell Institute people "yukking it up" are plausible? LoaP has said that people on the FAIR list never said anything, but then again, were they ever made aware of this stuff? Would some of the female members---like Jan and Juliann---find it offensive, or would they consider it to be OK since it was directed at old nemeses like Harmony and Beastie?

Frankly, I think it's a tough call, but I err on the side of "believable," given the MI Mopologists' long history of attack, locker-room antics, and what have you. After Skinny-L, "Metcalfe is Butthead," "Korihor has a press," Midgley's "You still selling books by that queer," mockery of the Jewish wedding ceremony, and Hamblin's K-word-laced rant, I'm kind of thinking that Will's claim holds water. So many of these MI apologists have been so utterly hell-bent on revenge for so many years that I rather suspect that they *would* find these kinds of attacks "funny." Heck, these are the people who found it amusing to dig through and post the gruesome details of Walter Martin's death report. Plus, they represent the ancien regime of Mopologetics, and they grew up on GA talks that characterized a "woman's role" in a way that the new, Bokovoy-headed vanguard seems less likely to accept.

So: a tough call. I think that LoaP is right to put pressure on the powers-that-be, regardless.

Why do you enjoy making LoAP feel bad?

There is nothing in the above that could, should or would make LoaP "feel bad". Either get on topic or I will report you for attempting to derail this thread.

I can not image anyone who would condone William misogyny Schryver's antics in this regard. At fair, mi or otherwise. I believe the majority of these people are level headed and good people, more in line with the Loap's and David B's of the world. I doubt that DCP would even be yukking this up in the background either. I assume William's beliefs in how others view him are likely not in touch with reality.

Do you see the report button? This is the Celestial Forum. Stop baiting the posters on this thread.

Hello,

I find it interesting that the other noted hater-of-women/women's behavior is Mr. Schryver's most vocal supporter. Very interesting, indeed.

V/R
Dr. Cam

lol, so true

Actually I'll bet it deals more with what cam just pointed out/

They will, no doubt, give a rousing cheer for your several recent comments equating my participation here with menstration, thus positioning you among the most worthy to cast stones.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Like I said, this isn't a mobocracy here. You're seeing Br'er Rabbit enjoy his time in the patch, Wade. And you're only egging it all on. Will's loving it. And the people asking for apologies and whatnot are really just helping things along.

Really? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this, RockSlider. I've been told by a few people that Dan Peterson has privately labeled Schryver a "loose cannon," among other things, but Will denies that this is the case (which isn't really saying much, admittedly). Then again, I listed a few examples of the apologists' more ribald behavior.... So I'm undecided here.

(emphasis added)

Could some one please explain this?

Blixa;
In a different thread, the other day, I likened Wade's cycling from his "do what Christ would do" moods to his personal attack moods to a menstruating woman.

Earlier in this thread Doctor CamNC4Me posted the following apology:
viewtopic.php?p=449362#p449362

I responded a few posts later with this post.
viewtopic.php?p=449366#p449366

It was me and that exact comment to Wade which Cam's words struck a chord, wondering how deeply held are my own personal issues that might rise to the surface in more Freudian ways. And yes I felt my own shame in why I would use a negative female analogy to push Wade's buttons.

I also apologize to all the posters here for that sexist comment. I believe another thread is in order to pursue my late 50's upbringing in the Mormon corridor and if it's simply a weakness in me or partly my upbringing that fostered these things.

RockSlider:

If what you say is true re: TBM upbringing... What might that say about attitudes among the Maxwell Institute apologists that Will mentioned?

I can sure relate to the bolded part of your post. I have been many years trying to grow out many thoughts and behaviors from my 50s upbringing.

As far as I am concerned you are forgiven. I hope I am forgiven for my lapses in judgement concerning sexist comments and my name calling. I am a work in progress.

Cam's words really did strike me in this regard the other day. I'm been thinking ever since to start a thread on it. .... enough derail here

Ah, thanks for explaining. I haven't read all of this thread since I've long been ignoring the main perp. It's one thing to pop off with a stupid comment now and then and another thing all together to have made an online career of semi-occultic threats and crude sexist insults. I long ago decided it was best to avoid those community theater histrionics altogether.

No fair telling secrets my friend. It kills the joy. ;-/

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

If you can't just blame the Church for your sexist attitudes, you can always blame me and Will. The crowd here is already disposed in that direction, and it will help to cover your sins with ours. Anything beats taking personal responsibility.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

So, does this mean you're not going to get back to me on my Lawful Evil Elf question?


Great minds think alike. (And apparently, so do ours.)


Erm, no thank you. My friends hardly need a primer on what misogyny looks like, there wasn't enough Jimmer in this thread to interest my Mormon in-laws, and there would have to be a lot more talking about guns to reel in my blood-kin.


Never been to an ex-Mormon Conference, but I hope you found the beer and condoms to your liking.


Delusions of grandeur much? I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but what I did here was just a Monday in my life. Really. I spent more time last week trying to kill Nefarian with my guild than I did composing this thread.

And since Nefarian doesn't call women "bitch" when they deliver a well-deserved blow, I'd much rather be DPSing him than you.


You really don't get it, William. You aren't the first apologist to try and cow me into taking or not taking a certain course of action with vague whispers about how disappointing I am or how I'm about to tarnish my reputation. Thus far, you're the third, and you are by far the smallest fish to try that ploy.

What can I tell you. It just gets less and less intimidating every time I hear it.

I'm sorry that you didn't choose to engage my concerns more substantively. I did not really think that you would, but I figured you deserved the chance to set things right.

BTW, if you can provide links to where you apologized for your comments about Emma Smith and your harassing behavior towards KimberlyAnn, I'll be glad to add them to the OP.

Rubbish. (Are you ever right about anything? Anything?)

No one is accusing Nibley of misogyny.
No one is accusing Hamblin of misogyny.
Why?

If it were some sort of misguided reaction to apologetic particulars then why don't we see personal attacks on these men of the sort Will has earned?



The apologetic arguments as such are not at issue here and are trivial in this context.

I know Dan Peterson has not weighed in here (and who could expect it?) but I have some indication from him about his attitude about a couple things.

I hope very much he will forgive me for saying this but he has indicated to me that while he thinks Will is intelligent and that his theories are perhaps a bit better than the critics realize, he does not appreciate Will's descents in the realm of the vulgar and does not understand it at all. He also has indicated that Beastie is a mostly reasonable and certainly intelligent person (except perhaps, in his view when she seems to give some credence to the theories of Mr. Scratch.)
In case Dan has forgotten, I have his own words with which I could remind him.

So apparently, our Dr. Peterson, who we might expect to remain partisan just cannot admire Will's antics and certainly cannot be found describing Beastie as repulsive. In fact, I have a hard time imagining him describing anyone in those terms. I fully expect that the best of the apologists, those who take their actual religion seriously, cannot endorse this or many other of Will's obnoxious traits.
If the rest could step back and look again, paying attention to subtext, they would see, if they haven't already, an aggressive chauvinistic bully.

I am glad LOAP had the character to speak up. I expect he will be followed by a few more eventually.

I know Peterson is the apologist critics love to hate but Will is better suited for that honor.

For my part I am extremely offended that Beastie or Harmony should be called repulsive. It angers me almost more than anything I have heard from Will. These are fine women who just refuse to be submissive in Will's presence (and really, why should they or any woman?)

The fact that even now Droopy can only be found defending this crap shows how insanely partisan he is (as if we didn't know that already). Shame on you Droopy. Shame.

PS. Please stop saying unalloyed and unreconstructed so many times. Why aren't you smart enough to realize what an embarrassing impression you give with these little phrases? These aren't big words, nor are they examples of eloquence. Instead it comes across as a lame affectation of some sort.