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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:19 pm 
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Chap wrote:
I bet not. He probably did not think he could get away with it. But given the paranoia and conspiracy theories currently sweeping the apologist camp in the wake of their loss of the Maxwell Institute, he probably thought it might be worth launching a conspiracy theory of his own.

And to judge from the immediate protection afforded him by the MADmods, he may have guessed right at least as far as the Endangered Apologists Conservation Zoo is concerned.

Edited to add: I see from mercyandgrace that I bet right!


The poster who reprimanded me via PM has published with MI, though I do not think he is officially associated with the institution. He may not be aware that I know his name IRL but I have to say, knowing that he values loyalty above decency has colored my impression of everything he writes. How can I know whether he is speaking his true beliefs or just running defense in some sort of rhetorical sport?

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:54 pm 
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Last edited by Hasa Diga Eebowai on Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Calling him out landed me the fabulous prize of a several day long PM exchange with another board regular who called me to repentance for not being loyal.


LOL!

Let me guess, it was Pahoran!


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:03 pm 
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mercyngrace wrote:
beastie wrote:

Did Will deny calling Emma a ____ at that time?


No. He did note that he had already apologized for doing so.

Calling him out landed me the fabulous prize of a several day long PM exchange with another board regular who called me to repentance for not being loyal.


He actually never did apologize, or at least get back to me with an apology after doing some more reading. I remember this because this was the only online interaction I have ever had with Will Schryver. His nasty remarks to people like liz and beastie (which in classic sexist manner concentrated on their age and appearance) convinced me to stay far away from him.

However, that screed about Emma was beyond even his usual "manly" preening. Suffice it to say, Joseph Smith would have been appalled by his comments and nothing in later Will's protestations ("high maintenance" etc) has any shred of historical accuracy given the sheer amount of wearing physical labor Emma conducted, especially in the Nauvoo period when she was both running an ad hoc home hospital/hostel and traveling extensively to carry out Smith's business deals. She did not sit in a fancy house ordering servants around and pitching a fit when the wrong kind of sewing machine was delivered (I'm referring of course to Amelia Folsom Young).

I find the prodigious heartache she went through in her life, which didn't stop after Joseph's tragic assassination, more of an occasion for empathy than thoughtless snark, no matter what questions I might still have about the dynamics of her relationship with Joseph Smith.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Blixa,

It took me a while to find the exchange I had with Will but here's a link to the thread and post where Will apologized for his comment about Emma Smith.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/539 ... 1208997862

He links to a thread on this board:

viewtopic.php?p=438461#p438461

At Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board he concluded his comment (for those who can't see it) with the following remarks:

Quote:
The bottom line is this: I have composed many a post of sharp, cutting prose over the years. I regret very, very few of them, and would not take them back. But the one where I unjustifiably characterized Emma Hale Smith using a vulgar term is one I do regret, and I both acknowledge my fault in the matter and publicly apologize for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:25 pm 
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mercyngrace wrote:
The poster who reprimanded me via PM has published with MI, though I do not think he is officially associated with the institution. He may not be aware that I know his name IRL but I have to say, knowing that he values loyalty above decency has colored my impression of everything he writes. How can I know whether he is speaking his true beliefs or just running defense in some sort of rhetorical sport?

Kevin Graham wrote:
mercyngrace wrote:
Calling him out landed me the fabulous prize of a several day long PM exchange with another board regular who called me to repentance for not being loyal.


LOL!

Let me guess, it was Pahoran!

Was going to say . . .

Tell Pahoran we said "hi."

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Last edited by MsJack on Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:30 pm 
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mercyngrace wrote:
At Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board he concluded his comment (for those who can't see it) with the following remarks:

Quote:
The bottom line is this: I have composed many a post of sharp, cutting prose over the years. I regret very, very few of them, and would not take them back. But the one where I unjustifiably characterized Emma Hale Smith using a vulgar term is one I do regret, and I both acknowledge my fault in the matter and publicly apologize for it.


Big deal. His comments about women who are actually alive were despicable and his inability to own up to his own words is still dishonorable and lame. KimberlyAnn, beastie, Liz, Ms Jack, and my humble self endured attack after attack for years, and I have yet to see an apology for calling me a vile word. Yes, I erased it. Yes, I'd erase it again. No one should have to read that sort of garbage directed at anyone, let alone oneself, over and over again, and have it recorded in history. I don't much care if y'all believe me or not. I know what I saw, and I erased it. I have nothing to prove here. We all know Will is ... well, Will is what Will is, and those who support him know exactly what he is. And what that makes them.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:32 pm 
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Blixa wrote:
Suffice it to say, Joseph Smith would have been appalled by his comments and nothing in later Will's protestations ("high maintenance" etc) has any shred of historical accuracy given the sheer amount of wearing physical labor Emma conducted, especially in the Nauvoo period when she was both running an ad hoc home hospital/hostel and traveling extensively to carry out Smith's business deals. She did not sit in a fancy house ordering servants around and pitching a fit when the wrong kind of sewing machine was delivered (I'm referring of course to Amelia Folsom Young).


I would love to see Joseph Smith kick Wilbur Scribbler in the can and send him flying out of the Mansion House. No doubt he would have, if he had read Mr. Scribbler's insult of his wife. We all know how he responded to the Expositor.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:37 pm 
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mercyngrace wrote:
Blixa,

It took me a while to find the exchange I had with Will but here's a link to the thread and post where Will apologized for his comment about Emma Smith.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/539 ... 1208997862

He links to a thread on this board:

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... 61#p438461

At Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board he concluded his comment (for those who can't see it) with the following remarks:

Quote:
The bottom line is this: I have composed many a post of sharp, cutting prose over the years. I regret very, very few of them, and would not take them back. But the one where I unjustifiably characterized Emma Hale Smith using a vulgar term is one I do regret, and I both acknowledge my fault in the matter and publicly apologize for it.

Thanks for digging this up, MnG. I honestly had no idea that he had apologized somewhere (you know, a real apology. Not an apology whilst calling Emma an emotionally volatile pain in the ass, or a promise to apologize in the future, which was what the response to Blixa was). I will add it to my update of the thread.

I'm not sure how his new denial of having ever said it effects his apology, but I will note them both.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:38 pm 
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MsJack wrote:
I'm not sure how his new denial of having ever said it effects his apology, but I will note them both.


Since his denial involves falsely accusing others of mischief, I would say it invalidates his "apologies."


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:45 pm 
Only later did I discover the evidence that it was a forgery. I will soon describe in some detail this and the other methods of propaganda legerdemain employed in the campaign by Mormon apostates to silence my apologetic articles and presentations.


When it comes to William it seems the evidence is perpetually 'coming soon.'


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Stormy Waters wrote:
Only later did I discover the evidence that it was a forgery. I will soon describe in some detail this and the other methods of propaganda legerdemain employed in the campaign by Mormon apostates to silence my apologetic articles and presentations.


When it comes to William it seems the evidence is perpetually 'coming soon.'


Well, if he didn't have a tale to tell about this conspiracy, he might actually have to produce the goods!


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:57 pm 
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harmony wrote:
Big deal.


I know that this small concession is inconsequential to you, Harmony, and I completely understand why but I didn't post the apology to show who Will is or isn't. I posted it because of who I am, someone willing to tell the truth even when it exonerates a person who has insulted me personally and treated me, on occasion, as an enemy.

In this one case, and by his own admission it seems to be an exception, Will did apologize.

Quote:
His comments about women who are actually alive were despicable and his inability to own up to his own words is still dishonorable and lame. KimberlyAnn, beastie, Liz, Ms Jack, and my humble self endured attack after attack for years, and I have yet to see an apology for calling me a vile word. Yes, I erased it. Yes, I'd erase it again. No one should have to read that sort of garbage directed at anyone, let alone oneself, over and over again, and have it recorded in history. I don't much care if y'all believe me or not. I know what I saw, and I erased it. I have nothing to prove here. We all know Will is ... well, Will is what Will is, and those who support him know exactly what he is. And what that makes them.


For my part, I wasn't reading this board when any of that happened so I just don't have anything to add. For the little that it's worth, I am truly sorry for the pain you've felt over this incident and I think it's despicable when we use words to degrade and demean.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:03 pm 
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mercyngrace wrote:
In this one case, and by his own admission it seems to be an exception, Will did apologize.


Big deal. He apologizes for insulting a dead woman. Nothing even remotely tied to personal responsibility is required to do that... no taking responsibility for one's own words, no restitution, no repentence.

He gets no pass from me.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:09 pm 
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harmony wrote:
He gets no pass from me.


Oh, I don't hold a grudge against Will. You don't have to have anything against a con artist in order to refrain from investing in his ponzi scheme. He just is who he is, and I really don't have any use for that. Live and let live.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:15 pm 
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Why doesn't Mr. Will demonstrate his Christian-ness and apologize publicly to Ms. Harmony for calling her the C-word? You know... If he's truly sorry for his behavior, and such?

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:32 pm 
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mercyngrace wrote:
Blixa,

It took me a while to find the exchange I had with Will but here's a link to the thread and post where Will apologized for his comment about Emma Smith.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/539 ... 1208997862

He links to a thread on this board:

viewtopic.php?p=438461#p438461

At Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board he concluded his comment (for those who can't see it) with the following remarks:

Quote:
The bottom line is this: I have composed many a post of sharp, cutting prose over the years. I regret very, very few of them, and would not take them back. But the one where I unjustifiably characterized Emma Hale Smith using a vulgar term is one I do regret, and I both acknowledge my fault in the matter and publicly apologize for it.


Thanks MercyandGrace. I never saw this on MDD (don't read it all that much). Because of his comments, I expected an apology and even a thread about it here, since that's what his response seemed in indicate.

Well, I wasn't holding my breath. : )

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From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."


Last edited by Blixa on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Blixa wrote:
Thanks MercyandGrace. I never saw this on MDD (don't read it all that much). Because of his comments, I expected an apology and even a thread about it here, since that's what his response seemed in indicate.

Well, I wasn't holding my breath. : )


Given that he made the original statement here, it would be fitting to issue the apology here. As is, it leaves open to interpretation whether he was apologizing for the offense or to appease a particular audience.

Nevertheless, there it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:46 pm 
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mercyngrace wrote:
Blixa wrote:
Thanks MercyandGrace. I never saw this on MDD (don't read it all that much). Because of his comments, I expected an apology and even a thread about it here, since that's what his response seemed in indicate.

Well, I wasn't holding my breath. : )


Given that he made the original statement here, it would be fitting to issue the apology here. As is, it leaves open to interpretation whether he was apologizing for the offense or to appease a particular audience.

Nevertheless, there it is.


Yep. Thanks, again!

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:12 pm 
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At Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board he concluded his comment (for those who can't see it) with the following remarks:

Quote:
The bottom line is this: I have composed many a post of sharp, cutting prose over the years. I regret very, very few of them, and would not take them back. But the one where I unjustifiably characterized Emma Hale Smith using a vulgar term is one I do regret, and I both acknowledge my fault in the matter and publicly apologize for it.



shucks, I was going to post it. I just needed to remember a key word.

Willaims quasi admittance and apology


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schry
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:26 pm 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Oh, I don't hold a grudge against Will. You don't have to have anything against a con artist in order to refrain from investing in his ponzi scheme. He just is who he is, and I really don't have any use for that. Live and let live.


That.

Wasting time holding a grudge against a fool is foolish. I've never seen a more dishonest, narcissistic person than Will is. That is who is he is, quite right. He can waste his time and effort on the fool's errand of trying to defend what can't be defended. I don't have use for that, either.

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