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 Post subject: Stop the Presses: BKP and Kevin Graham agree!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:04 am 
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Around us we see members of the Church who have become offended. Some take offense at incidents in the history of the Church or its leaders and suffer their whole lives, unable to get past the mistakes of others. They do not leave it alone. They fall into inactivity.

* * * * *

If you are carrying some burden, forget it, let it alone.


People convert all the time on paper, but do so in ignorance. The evidence is overwhelming. The more non-members know, the less likely they are to join. And the more members know, the more likely they are to leave. This is why the Church likes to keep people ignorant of all the evidence against it. If you even associate with known critics, you could lose your temple recommend. It is all about control.


Kevin merely outlined the premise of BKP's comments that "[s]ome take offense at incidents in the history of the Church". What would there be to take offense at if those incidents in the history of the Church were faith promoting, or even merely neutral? BKP's statement acknowledges that those historical incidences are problematic for maintaining faith, 'some take offense' at them. He counsels to 'let it alone'. Kevin merely pointed out that the more people know, the less inclined they are to join or continue in the Mormon Church.

And of course, in his zeal to disagree with Kevin (and therefore BKP too),
stemelbow wrote:
It just straight up fascinates me to see people draw such mean-spirited conclusions when there are far more realistic and sensible conclusions to draw.


So, stem must think BKP was just spewing advice based on mean-spirited premises at GC.

So stem, are you ready to label BKP as mean-spirited too?

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And the truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you off!!! UtahMike re the Kirtland and Nauvoo plural marriage essay, co-opting Gloria Steinem


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 Post subject: Re: Stop the Presses: BKP and Kevin Graham agree!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:20 am 
God

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:40 pm
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BKP:

Quote:
Around us we see members of the Church who have become offended. Some take offense at incidents in the history of the Church or its leaders and suffer their whole lives, unable to get past the mistakes of others.


and

Quote:
If you are carrying some burden, forget it, let it alone. Do a lot of forgiving and a little repenting, and you will be visited by the Spirit of the Holy Ghost and confirmed by the testimony that you did not know existed. You will be watched over and blessed—you and yours. This is an invitation to come unto Him. This church—The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth,” 22 by His own declaration—is where we find “the great plan of happiness.” 23 Of this I bear witness in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.


I don't see Kevin agreeing so much with BKP. Packer is not advocating not learning stuff. He is advocating leaving alone past mistakes, don't let them fester inside you.

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I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop the Presses: BKP and Kevin Graham agree!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:22 am 
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stem, like Kevin Graham, BKP acknowledges that those historical incidences can be damaging to one's faith in the LDS Church. That's the point. So your excoriation of Kevin applies equally to BKP.

Doesn't it feel good to be an apostate, stem?

_________________
Remember kids, God created you and loves you so much. He also created hell incase you don't love him back. Ricky Gervais

And the truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you off!!! UtahMike re the Kirtland and Nauvoo plural marriage essay, co-opting Gloria Steinem


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 Post subject: Re: Stop the Presses: BKP and Kevin Graham agree!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:15 am 
God

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:40 pm
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sock puppet wrote:
stem, like Kevin Graham, BKP acknowledges that those historical incidences can be damaging to one's faith in the LDS Church. That's the point. So your excoriation of Kevin applies equally to BKP.

Doesn't it feel good to be an apostate, stem?


Nice try, SP. I too agree that historical incidences can be damaging to one's faith. So figure. back to the drawing board for you.

And of course BKP and Graham will agree on some things in the world. What's the big deal here?

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Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop the Presses: BKP and Kevin Graham agree!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:11 pm 
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stemelbow wrote:
sock puppet wrote:
stem, like Kevin Graham, BKP acknowledges that those historical incidences can be damaging to one's faith in the LDS Church. That's the point. So your excoriation of Kevin applies equally to BKP.

Doesn't it feel good to be an apostate, stem?


Nice try, SP. I too agree that historical incidences can be damaging to one's faith. So figure. back to the drawing board for you.

And of course BKP and Graham will agree on some things in the world. What's the big deal here?

The big deal is you call Graham on the carpet saying what BKP premised his comments on. If you have any degree of respectability, you would either apologize to Graham or hold the same grievances against BKP that you do Graham in this regard. As I recall, you said of Graham it was 'drawing mean-spirited conclusions'. So, which is it stem--

1-BKP also drew the same mean-spirited conclusions for which you called Graham on the carpet,

2-Neither BKP or Graham drew mean-spirited conclusions, and thus you apologize to Graham for you post, or

3-You fess up to be the duplicitous hack for the Team (I think you call it "the Church") and hold that the same conclusions when drawn by BKP are not mean-spirited because he is BKP but when drawn by Graham they are mean-spirited because he is no longer loyal to the Team.

Which is it? My guess is #3, at least that's where you are if you do not adopt #1 or #2.

_________________
Remember kids, God created you and loves you so much. He also created hell incase you don't love him back. Ricky Gervais

And the truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you off!!! UtahMike re the Kirtland and Nauvoo plural marriage essay, co-opting Gloria Steinem


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 Post subject: Re: Stop the Presses: BKP and Kevin Graham agree!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:47 pm 
God

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:40 pm
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sock puppet wrote:
The big deal is you call Graham on the carpet saying what BKP premised his comments on. If you have any degree of respectability, you would either apologize to Graham or hold the same grievances against BKP that you do Graham in this regard. As I recall, you said of Graham it was 'drawing mean-spirited conclusions'. So, which is it stem--

1-BKP also drew the same mean-spirited conclusions for which you called Graham on the carpet,


Well, shoot, I figure by asking you to go figure you'd actually figure out that the conclusion reached by Kevin Graham which I took issue with is not the one you keep harping on. Read his comments again.

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Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop the Presses: BKP and Kevin Graham agree!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:17 pm 
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stemelbow wrote:
sock puppet wrote:
The big deal is you call Graham on the carpet saying what BKP premised his comments on. If you have any degree of respectability, you would either apologize to Graham or hold the same grievances against BKP that you do Graham in this regard. As I recall, you said of Graham it was 'drawing mean-spirited conclusions'. So, which is it stem--

1-BKP also drew the same mean-spirited conclusions for which you called Graham on the carpet,


Well, shoot, I figure by asking you to go figure you'd actually figure out that the conclusion reached by Kevin Graham which I took issue with is not the one you keep harping on. Read his comments again.

So you've selected #1 (as you've left ##2 and 3 out of the quote from my post)?

_________________
Remember kids, God created you and loves you so much. He also created hell incase you don't love him back. Ricky Gervais

And the truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you off!!! UtahMike re the Kirtland and Nauvoo plural marriage essay, co-opting Gloria Steinem


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 Post subject: Re: Stop the Presses: BKP and Kevin Graham agree!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:22 pm 
God

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:40 pm
Posts: 5872
sock puppet wrote:
So you've selected #1 (as you've left ##2 and 3 out of the quote from my post)?


ah...I'm done, SP. It appears you're just going to fight no matter what i say.

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Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop the Presses: BKP and Kevin Graham agree!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:49 pm 
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And yungin's that is the sound, pep pep, of stem in retreat.

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Remember kids, God created you and loves you so much. He also created hell incase you don't love him back. Ricky Gervais

And the truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you off!!! UtahMike re the Kirtland and Nauvoo plural marriage essay, co-opting Gloria Steinem


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