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 Post subject: Monson, a lousy father and husband but a 'great mormon'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:50 am 
God

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Tuesday, Apr 5, 2011, at 11:30 AM
Holland's Vision Of Fatherhood
Posted By Doctor Faustus
JEFFERY R. HOLLAND

From MormonCurtain.com on a talk by jeffy holland: "Holland said something that bothers, if not surprises, me.

After speaking a while he started talking about Monson. He said that Monson's wife and children had gone without their father's involvement for fifty years, experiencing all the trials and tribulations, the bumps and bruises, the setbacks of life, without his active support.

Wow, I thought, Holland's finally going to acknowledge the sacrifices imposed on Church leaders' families; he's going to express empathy for the wife and children who never had the love and encouragement of a father figure. But I was wrong. What Holland went on to say were words to the effect that "through all of his children's suffering President Monson never wavered in his commitment to the Church. We must respect and honor him for his wholehearted dedication."

***************************************

"No success in life can compensate for failure in the home". David O. McKay

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Last edited by Joseph on Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Monson, a lousy father and husband but a 'great mormon'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:11 pm 
God

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Link?


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 Post subject: Re: Monson, a lousy father and husband but a 'great mormon'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:49 pm 
God

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This behavior seems to be the way most social architects deal with family.

I remember in 1985 reading the biography of Spencer Kimball. As I recall, I finished it on the day he died. I had just gotten married and was overwhelmed with the thought that this guy had sacrificed his family for what he may have considered the "greater good". I had seen it in my own family going back generations. Kimball's father was much the same - continually abandoning his family to go preach religion in some obscure place in the world. I was overwhelmed because I wanted to be like him. I had already consecrated my time, talents and everything I thought the lord blessed me with to the mormon church. I was sad that this is what it meant. I wanted to spend my life with my family. I wanted to give my children and bride a better quality of life than my father did. My parents were stinking rich so that's not what I mean.

But I get it now. I don't care what religion, political persuasion or profession, this is shameful behavior for a parent and should never be applauded.

These people are not role models to pattern healthy family relationships by. No external so-called good can compensate for failure to be a parent.


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 Post subject: Re: Monson, a lousy father and husband but a 'great mormon'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:38 pm 
God

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Is this the norm, for Mormon prophets dating back to Joseph?

I mean, no one could claim Brigham was any kind of effective parent; supposedly, he couldn't even remember the names of all his children.

No excuse is acceptable.

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 Post subject: Re: Monson, a lousy father and husband but a 'great mormon'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:50 pm 
Priest

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You all must have missed the talk in which a GA said GA's are just like everyone else, with family's, challenges, happiness, etc.

Just because someone is a leader or a businessman doesn't mean the parents or parent "neglects" his family in any significant or harmful manner. Their sacrifice would not for example be the same as YOUR so-called sacrifice if you had responsibilities outside the home. They would make sure the "priorities" are taken care of, however bad parents don't do that.

But, that's anti's for you, misrepresenting every good thing into something sinister and terrible.
Those who are called into Church leadership are generally "high functioning" individuals, meaning they already have their priorities in life straitened out. After all, if they didn't, they would be able to pray, read scriptures together, etc.

Take my mormon wife with a highly successful mormon in her same business. He was well developed and trained and successful in the business, but he was still able to be there for his family and do his "mormon" duties with the Church and the Family. He was successful and highly functional, while my wife was not successful and dysfunctional. He grew up developing high level skills to be able to do what he now does. My wife did not grow up with such skills. Thus, the time she spent away from home, the money she spent was "destructive" to her character and her family, ultimately destroying it. In contrast his time and effort and usage of money only benefited his family.

Thus, you all are trying to compare Corvettes with a beat up garbage truck. It's not a fair and accurate comparison. You are calling good evil and evil good. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Monson, a lousy father and husband but a 'great mormon'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:58 pm 
the very elect
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Obiwan wrote:
BLAH BLAH BLAH, I hope I can keep my testi-baloney, BLLAAHH blah BLahhhahahahah BLAHHH

Remember this old-be-one, greater defenders have fallen farther than you attempt to reach. I give you less than a year.

Obiwan wrote:
Take my mormon wife with a highly successful mormon in her same business. He was well developed and trained and successful in the business, but he was still able to be there for his family and do his "mormon" duties with the Church and the Family. He was successful and highly functional, while my wife was not successful and dysfunctional. He grew up developing high level skills to be able to do what he now does. My wife did not grow up with such skills. Thus, the time she spent away from home, the money she spent was "destructive" to her character and her family, ultimately destroying it. In contrast his time and effort and usage of money only benefited his family.
Sour grapes dude? Are you divorced?
Are you saying that your wife failed to be a career mommy?

Our own Liz is a successful mormon career mommy.

Obiwan wrote:
Thus, you all are trying to compare Corvettes with a beat up garbage truck. It's not a fair and accurate comparison. You are calling good evil and evil good. :(
Beat up garbage trucks do far more for the community than Corvettes. Sides' only douche bags drive 'vettes.

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 Post subject: Re: Monson, a lousy father and husband but a 'great mormon'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:37 pm 
God
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Obiwan wrote:
You all must have missed the talk in which a GA said GA's are just like everyone else, with family's, challenges, happiness, etc.

Just because someone is a leader or a businessman doesn't mean the parents or parent "neglects" his family in any significant or harmful manner. Their sacrifice would not for example be the same as YOUR so-called sacrifice if you had responsibilities outside the home. They would make sure the "priorities" are taken care of, however bad parents don't do that.



After speaking a while he started talking about Monson. He said that Monson's wife and children had gone without their father's involvement for fifty years, experiencing all the trials and tribulations, the bumps and bruises, the setbacks of life, without his active support.

This says Monson was not active in his familiy's life for fifty years, he was too busy serving the church and all the while leaving his family to it's own devices. No one I know, no one, thinks it's good for a father to not be active in supporting his children through all the "trials and tribulations, the bumps and bruises, the setbacks of life". Really what the f*** is a father for if not to support his family through these trials in life? The LDS church seems to have the lowest opinion of fatherhood I've seen it ranks far below the "priesthood" and service to the church in LDS thought.

Monson is no different than any other absentee father, whether they chose to be absent through working or socializing, the end result is they put some thing before their family. Monson and his fifty year shunting aside of his family is probably the first time I (as a Catholic) have ever considered that the "celibate priesthood" may be a good thing and at the very least has it's place.


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 Post subject: Re: Monson, a lousy father and husband but a 'great mormon'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:45 pm 
the very elect
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cafe crema wrote:
Obiwan wrote:
You all must have missed the talk in which a GA said GA's are just like everyone else, with family's, challenges, happiness, etc.

Just because someone is a leader or a businessman doesn't mean the parents or parent "neglects" his family in any significant or harmful manner. Their sacrifice would not for example be the same as YOUR so-called sacrifice if you had responsibilities outside the home. They would make sure the "priorities" are taken care of, however bad parents don't do that.



After speaking a while he started talking about Monson. He said that Monson's wife and children had gone without their father's involvement for fifty years, experiencing all the trials and tribulations, the bumps and bruises, the setbacks of life, without his active support.

This says Monson was not active in his familiy's life for fifty years, he was too busy serving the church and all the while leaving his family to it's own devices. No one I know, no one, thinks it's good for a father to not be active in supporting his children through all the "trials and tribulations, the bumps and bruises, the setbacks of life". Really what the f*** is a father for if not to support his family through these trials in life? The LDS church seems to have the lowest opinion of fatherhood I've seen it ranks far below the "priesthood" and service to the church in LDS thought.

Monson is no different than any other absentee father, whether they chose to be absent through working or socializing, the end result is they put some thing before their family. Monson and his fifty year shunting aside of his family is probably the first time I (as a Catholic) have ever considered that the "celibate priesthood" may be a good thing and at the very least has it's place.
Wow, so Thommy was nothing more than a sperm donor...

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 Post subject: Re: Monson, a lousy father and husband but a 'great mormon'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:27 pm 
God
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Quote:
Wow, I thought, Holland's finally going to acknowledge the sacrifices imposed on Church leaders' families; he's going to express empathy for the wife and children who never had the love and encouragement of a father figure. But I was wrong. What Holland went on to say were words to the effect that "through all of his children's suffering President Monson never wavered in his commitment to the Church. We must respect and honor him for his wholehearted dedication."

***************************************

"No success in life can compensate for failure in the home". David O. McKay


So how much actual "failure" in the home was there? His children grew up with a great example of service. In addition, you seem to be seriously misreading DOM's statement.

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 Post subject: Re: Monson, a lousy father and husband but a 'great Mormon'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:34 pm 
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One thing you can never forget is the recognition the family received, by having President Monson as a husband and father, from their fellow LDS. This must have paved the way for a smoother childhood and marriage than one would ever find with a father who was away on duty or who traveled a lot. Seeing the esteem and adulation their father received would have made his absence more understandable.

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 Post subject: Re: Monson, a lousy father and husband but a 'great mormon'
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:12 pm 
God

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How did his kids turn out? I have a theory as to why there is less divorce in leaders in the Church. Maybe if couples spend too much time together they eventually get tired of each other, leading to boredom and resentment. People constantly in service to the Church will have an excuse to be away, and so any irritations the wife might have will not be directed towards the Church as they might be towards his job, and then ultimately him.


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