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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:33 pm 
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Simon Belmont wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:
That said--do you approve of and/or agree with USU78's comments? He seems to be advocating for a kind theological fascism--a world in which everyone must submit to the impulses and whims of Mormonism.



The point is, why point it out? Who cares?


If you don't care, why read the thread and post in it, Simon?

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:54 pm 
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Simon Belmont wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:
That said--do you approve of and/or agree with USU78's comments? He seems to be advocating for a kind theological fascism--a world in which everyone must submit to the impulses and whims of Mormonism.



The point is, why point it out? Who cares?

Why are you here doing nothing, when you could be here replying to Darth J. who put up a well thought out *substantive* post in response to your usual inane and vacuous comments. (and God only knows why Darth J. bothers with you)

Darth J. wasting his precious time on Simon


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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:58 pm 
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It's interesting to see Apologists like Simon and USU clamor to be first in line to be considered victims. Hold your heads high gentlemen.

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:38 pm 
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Doctor Scratch wrote:
Huh? "Who cares" if our world turns into an Orwellian, LDS-themed nightmare?

Is it time to coin a new word?

If the LDS church completely takes over the country or the world, do we call it a "Morwellian" society?

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:45 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
"Morwellian"


Excellent.

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:05 pm 
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Doctor Scratch wrote:
And it's worth "pointing out" because it's revelatory in terms of the way(s) that it reveals the sheer toxicity of Mopologetics. I'm not alone in thinking that USU78's involvement with LDS apologetics has eroded his critical thinking faculties and turned him into a very bitter person. You yourself, Simon Skains, are growing ever more bitter the more you attempt to "exact revenge, Mopologist-style. Soon you may be every bit as angry and idiotic as "Rube-inn Dunn!"


I too am disturbed by the nihilism that prompts Simon to express apathy at the dissipation of USU78's humanity in the maw of the monster of Mopologetics. Clearly Simon is daily slipping further into that abyss from which he cannot return to "care" about the suffering of others and the loss that is felt every time Mopologetics claims another victim.

You may not weep for USU78, Simon, but we will shed more than a tear for you. Turn back.

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:20 pm 
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Kish,

It seems like the more we reach out to Simon, the harder he kicks. I can't tell if these are the death throws of his apologetic career or if he is going down that jaded spiral.

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:48 pm 
Doctor Scratch wrote:
Huh?


A typical Scratchian Phrase

Quote:
"Who cares" if our world turns into an Orwellian, LDS-themed nightmare?


Well what does that have to do with USU78's opinion and the way you interpret it?

Quote:
Well, I, for one, "care." A fascist and soul-crushing society isn't exactly something I want for the human race, Simon.


I do not want that, either; but it has nothing to do with USU78's opinion, or with your character-assassination post about it. Unless, of course, you imagine that USU78 has the power to create such an Orwellian LDS-themed nightmare.

Quote:
And it's worth "pointing out" because it's revelatory in terms of the way(s) that it reveals the sheer toxicity of Mopologetics.


No. It is another ploy to satisfy your need to get as much attention as possible from as many people as possible. This time it failed miserably.

Quote:
I'm not alone in thinking that USU78's involvement with LDS apologetics has eroded his critical thinking faculties and turned him into a very bitter person.


Well then, that must mean your interpretation of his expressed opinion is correct, right? Is the fact that you are not alone your definitive answer, Scratch? If that is the case then I am not alone in liking the marvelous taste of Mellow Yellow -- that must make it the definitively the number one soda, right?

Quote:
You yourself, Simon Skains, are growing ever more bitter the more you attempt to "exact revenge, Mopologist-style. Soon you may be every bit as angry and idiotic as "Rube-inn Dunn!"


No, Scratch... I am anti-Critic as you are anti-Apologist.


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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:01 pm 
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Simon Belmont wrote:
No, Scratch... I am anti-Critic as you are anti-Apologist.


Then maybe you should double down on your efforts to counter critics instead of Doctor Scratch.

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:22 pm 
Kishkumen wrote:
Simon Belmont wrote:
No, Scratch... I am anti-Critic as you are anti-Apologist.


Then maybe you should double down on your efforts to counter critics instead of Doctor Scratch.



He is a critic. A critic of both the Church and LDS apologetics.


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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:26 pm 
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Simon Belmont wrote:
He is a critic. A critic of both the Church and LDS apologetics.


He is a critic of Mopologetics. I haven't seen that he spends much time criticizing the LDS Church per se.

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:33 pm 
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MrStakhanovite wrote:
Kish,

It seems like the more we reach out to Simon, the harder he kicks. I can't tell if these are the death throws of his apologetic career or if he is going down that jaded spiral.


It is true. He appears to be past feeling. I refuse to give up, though, Stak. We must not abandon him to a fate worse than death.

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:05 pm 
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Simon, I don't know if you read Mr. Stak's earlier post on Abraham Heschel’s introduction to The Prophets. I'm going to requote some of the bits Stak excerpted for us and ask you read them very carefully:

Quote:
Instead of showing us a way through the mansions of the mind, the prophets take us to the slums. The world is a proud place, full of beauty, but the prophets are scandalized, and rave as the whole world was a slum. They make much ado about paltry things, lavishing excessive language upon trifling subjects…


Quote:
Prophetic utterance is rarely cryptic...it is urging, alarming, forcing onward...The prophet seldom tells a story, but casts events. He rarely sings, but castigates.


Quote:
To us a single act of injustice – cheating in business, exploitation of the poor- [or insultingly mangling a historic feminist slogan] is slight; to the prophets, a disaster. To us injustice is injurious to the welfare of the people; to the prophets it is a deathblow to existence: to us, an episode; to them a catastrophe, a threat to the world…Their breathless impatience with injustice may strike us as hysteria. We ourselves witness continually acts of injustice, manifestations of hypocrisy, falsehood, outrage, misery, but we rarely grow indignant or overly excited. To the prophets even a minor injustice assumes cosmic proportions.

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:07 pm 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
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Simon Belmont wrote:
I do not want that, either; but it has nothing to do with USU78's opinion, or with your character-assassination post about it. Unless, of course, you imagine that USU78 has the power to create such an Orwellian LDS-themed nightmare.


It's simple, Simon Skains. USU78's remark stems from a notably TBM mindset that has its basis in paranoia and a deep need to control all facets of human society.

Quote:
Quote:
And it's worth "pointing out" because it's revelatory in terms of the way(s) that it reveals the sheer toxicity of Mopologetics.


No. It is another ploy to satisfy your need to get as much attention as possible from as many people as possible.


Consider your response Exhibit A re: the "toxicity" I described.

Quote:
Quote:
I'm not alone in thinking that USU78's involvement with LDS apologetics has eroded his critical thinking faculties and turned him into a very bitter person.


Well then, that must mean your interpretation of his expressed opinion is correct, right?


No... Especially given the fact that my assessment isn't based on his "expressed opinion." It's based on the general shift in subject and tone in his posts over the past few years. Why, do you disagree? Do you think that he's grown more reasonable, decent, and Christ-like over the years?

Quote:
Quote:
You yourself, Simon Skains, are growing ever more bitter the more you attempt to "exact revenge, Mopologist-style. Soon you may be every bit as angry and idiotic as "Rube-inn Dunn!"


No, Scratch... I am anti-Critic as you are anti-Apologist.


Sure you're getting angrier. You're practically frothing at the mouth:

Simon Belmont wrote:
[Y]ou are the lowest form of intelligence I have ever encountered. You are slime, pure and simple, and now you have demonstrated that even putrid discharge like you can be bigoted. You make me literally sick.

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:34 pm 
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Tchild wrote:
Simon Belmont wrote:

The point is, why point it out? Who cares?

Why are you here doing nothing, when you could be here replying to Darth J. who put up a well thought out *substantive* post in response to your usual inane and vacuous comments. (and God only knows why Darth J. bothers with you)

Darth J. wasting his precious time on Simon


I'm trying to convert Simon to Mormonism. I think that would be a nice change from his current religion.

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:19 pm 
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Darth J wrote:
I'm trying to convert Simon to Mormonism. I think that would be a nice change from his current religion.


Good luck. Mopologia is a counterfeit gospel that is tailor-made to satisfy the voraciousness of a sickly ego that will self-destruct if it ever confronts the possibility of not being right in the name of this pseudo-Mormonism.

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:21 pm 
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Doctor Scratch wrote:
No... Especially given the fact that my assessment isn't based on his "expressed opinion." It's based on the general shift in subject and tone in his posts over the past few years. Why, do you disagree? Do you think that he's grown more reasonable, decent, and Christ-like over the years?


It is not clear to me that Simon ever lets the facts get in the way of his preconceived notions. Has he watched this devolution of USU78 that others of us have watched from front row seats, as it were?

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:49 pm 
Doctor Scratch wrote:
It's simple, Simon Skains. USU78's remark stems from a notably TBM mindset that has its basis in paranoia and a deep need to control all facets of human society.


Really? According to whom? You? I am a lifelong member, and have seen no such paranoia and "deep need to control all facets of human society." You are making this up, pure and simple.

Scratch wrote:
Consider your response Exhibit A re: the "toxicity" I described.


It is another ploy for you to garner as much attention as possible. Else, why are the only types of threads you post attack threads? Where are the love threads? Where are the compliment threads? Is your heart so hardened that you have no compassion left?

Quote:
No... Especially given the fact that my assessment isn't based on his "expressed opinion."


Of course it is! And you interpreted it, put a negative spin on it, and posted an attack thread over here. You are as guilty as you claim the "Mopologists" are -- you're just on the other side of the fence.

Quote:
It's based on the general shift in subject and tone in his posts over the past few years. Why, do you disagree? Do you think that he's grown more reasonable, decent, and Christ-like over the years?


Your false dichotomy will not work here. USU78 has remained unchanged for the most part.

Quote:
Sure you're getting angrier. You're practically frothing at the mouth:

[Y]ou are the lowest form of intelligence I have ever encountered. You are slime, pure and simple, and now you have demonstrated that even putrid discharge like you can be bigoted. You make me literally sick.


So, you agree with Joseph's bigotry? That will be nice ammunition for the future. Here are a couple of gems from you.

Scratch wrote:
I don’t care what rules you cite. I play by my own rules. – Doctor Scratch, 10/08/2010

I *am* guilty of writing derogatory things about DCP. – Mister Scratch, 3/16/2007


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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:16 pm 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
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Simon Belmont wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:
It's simple, Simon Skains. USU78's remark stems from a notably TBM mindset that has its basis in paranoia and a deep need to control all facets of human society.


Really? According to whom? You? I am a lifelong member, and have seen no such paranoia and "deep need to control all facets of human society." You are making this up, pure and simple.


I don't think so. If you weren't "paranoid," you'd be far more willing to post using your IRL name, ala DCP, Mike Ash, Hamblin, Schryver, Wade Englund, etc., etc., etc. The fact that you've clung so tenaciously to your pseudonym is enormously revealing in terms of your paranoia, actually.

And yes: I realize that you're going to say, "Well, hey! Look at you!" I'll simply point out that no critic I'm aware of has ever engaged in the wholesale interference in people's lives that's summed up by, say, Louis Midgley's assault on the Tanners, or John Tvedtnes's attempt to interfere with Thomas Murphy's tenure proceedings, or Louis Midgley's attempts to have Meldrum's book pulled from the shelves of Deseret Book.

Plus, LDS paranoia is evident in many other facets of the Church, perhaps most noticeably in the secret temple ceremony and the secret Church finances.

Quote:
Scratch wrote:
Consider your response Exhibit A re: the "toxicity" I described.


It is another ploy for you to garner as much attention as possible. Else, why are the only types of threads you post attack threads? Where are the love threads? Where are the compliment threads? Is your heart so hardened that you have no compassion left?


I recently posted a congratulatory thread to Dean Robbers.

Quote:
Quote:
No... Especially given the fact that my assessment isn't based on his "expressed opinion."


Of course it is! And you interpreted it, put a negative spin on it, and posted an attack thread over here. You are as guilty as you claim the "Mopologists" are -- you're just on the other side of the fence.


No. You're distorting the evidence, Simon Skains.

Quote:
Quote:
It's based on the general shift in subject and tone in his posts over the past few years. Why, do you disagree? Do you think that he's grown more reasonable, decent, and Christ-like over the years?


Your false dichotomy will not work here. USU78 has remained unchanged for the most part.


The prove it.

Quote:
Quote:
Sure you're getting angrier. You're practically frothing at the mouth:

[Y]ou are the lowest form of intelligence I have ever encountered. You are slime, pure and simple, and now you have demonstrated that even putrid discharge like you can be bigoted. You make me literally sick.


So, you agree with Joseph's bigotry?


I disagree with Joseph's methods, and with a lot of his posts. He's clumsy.

Quote:
That will be nice ammunition for the future. Here are a couple of gems from you.

Scratch wrote:
I don’t care what rules you cite. I play by my own rules. – Doctor Scratch, 10/08/2010


Yes--I agree. That *is* a gem. I guess you play by the "rules" established by the LDS Church?

Oh, wait... No, you don't. You've been violating them ever since you began posting. You're a terrible Latter-day Saint.

Quote:
I *am* guilty of writing derogatory things about DCP. – Mister Scratch, 3/16/2007


That's a "gem," too, and I don't deny it. How could I, when I'm singling in on acts of his that are undeniably evil? Is it "derogatory" to point out that Dr. Peterson has engaged in a smear campaign against D. Michael Quinn? Why, *yes*, it is!

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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:30 pm 
Doctor Scratch wrote:
I don't think so. If you weren't "paranoid," you'd be far more willing to post using your IRL name,


That has nothing to do with paranoia, unless you are "paranoid" too. You have never revealed your IRL name, and I do not imagine you ever will.

Quote:
ala DCP, Mike Ash, Hamblin, Schryver, Wade Englund, etc., etc., etc. The fact that you've clung so tenaciously to your pseudonym is enormously revealing in terms of your paranoia, actually.


Is it? What about the fact that you've clung so tenaciously to yours?

Quote:
I'll simply point out that no critic I'm aware of has ever engaged in the wholesale interference in people's lives that's summed up by, say, Louis Midgley's assault on the Tanners,


The Tanners shouldn't have become anti-Mormons if they didn't want to be ridiculed by LDS Scholars. It is very simple.

Quote:
or John Tvedtnes's attempt to interfere with Thomas Murphy's tenure proceedings,


Murphy produced dishonest materials towards the Church which cast the Book of Mormon in a bad light. If he did not want people to ridicule him or question his academic dishonesty, he shouldn't have produced what he produced. See how simple this is?

Quote:
Plus, LDS paranoia is evident in many other facets of the Church, perhaps most noticeably in the secret temple ceremony and the secret Church finances.


Another teaching that apostates just do not understand. No wonder you left. The temple ceremonies aren't "secret," any worth member can participate.

Quote:
I recently posted a congratulatory thread to Dean Robbers.


A veiled attempt to undermine another member's interests. Not noble at all. Tell me another thread you composed that wasn't an attack thread.

If you are so bent out of shape about apologists attacking anti-Mormons, why do you participate in the same behavior that you so loathe?

Quote:
No. You're distorting the evidence, Simon Skains.


Sorry. I am not. You say this every time you get backed into a corner by me, Scratch Skains.

Quote:
The prove it.


I don't care that much. I only care about the fact that you loathe apologetics for the very same behavior that you imitate here.

Quote:
I disagree with Joseph's methods, and with a lot of his posts. He's clumsy.


No, Scratch. He's a d***a**. Just say it. He really, truly, is a d***a**.

Quote:
Yes--I agree. That *is* a gem. I guess you play by the "rules" established by the LDS Church?


I play by the known rules of whatever event I am taking place in. I do not simply make up "my own rules" each time, like you do.

Quote:
That's a "gem," too, and I don't deny it. How could I, when I'm singling in on acts of his that are undeniably evil? Is it "derogatory" to point out that Dr. Peterson has engaged in a smear campaign against D. Michael Quinn? Why, *yes*, it is!


So, again, we see that you believe that it is "evil" for LDS Apologists to behave exactly like you behave here.

And what about D. Michael Quinn... why do you always defend him? You don't even know him.


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 Post subject: Re: USU78 Descends into Utter Insanity
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:35 pm 
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Simon Belmont wrote:

And what about D. Michael Quinn... why do you always defend him? You don't even know him.


What on earth does that mean?

Do you know him? Or his work?

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