It is currently Mon May 21, 2018 8:16 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:45 pm 
Darth J wrote:
If that is the case, then I don't want anything by me posted on a polemical site without my permission.


You mean a hate site which promotes hatred toward a certain religion? I wouldn't, either.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:18 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 6:16 pm
Posts: 13375
Location: In a van down by the river
Simon Belmont wrote:
Darth J wrote:
If that is the case, then I don't want anything by me posted on a polemical site without my permission.


You mean a hate site which promotes hatred toward a certain religion? I wouldn't, either.


Simon, would you agree with me that it is hate speech to mock the fundamental teachings of a religion, and to claim its history shows that it is completely man-made, and to go through its core doctrines (which its follower consider to be sacred) and talk about how these doctrines are false and the inventions of man?

You do agree with me that that's hate speech, don't you?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:52 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:38 pm
Posts: 4847
A friend of mine still has this book today. His mission president recommended it to him when he was on his mission in the mid-70s in Arkansas. He said the missionaries got a lot of questions about the ban at that time, and that book supposedly had the answers for them. When I first picked it up and perused through it about 5 years ago, I could hardly believe what I was reading. It's something the KKK would write to justify their racism. I especially love the word "negress" to identify a black woman.

_________________
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
- Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:59 pm 
Bishop
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:01 pm
Posts: 486
Good reminder that I have this book in my office - ordered it second hand a long time ago. I think I'll take it home for my girls to read.

_________________
"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. ... Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I." - Joseph Smith, 1844


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:45 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 18694
Location: Koloburbia
Forgetting something unpleasant is a way of coping, still trying to alter past history is analogous to the American Tobacco Institute trying to hide its own reports of tobacco causing cancer. Eventually the truth will get out and you are then in a worse position than before.

_________________
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:04 pm 
Darth J wrote:
Simon, would you agree with me that it is hate speech to mock the fundamental teachings of a religion, and to claim its history shows that it is completely man-made, and to go through its core doctrines (which its follower consider to be sacred) and talk about how these doctrines are false and the inventions of man?

You do agree with me that that's hate speech, don't you?


Setting another trap that you expect me to walk in to, Darth J? I know how it goes: You ask a loaded question, I answer it, then you find quotes from LDS.org which support your position and deny mine.

But, I do believe it is hate speech to mock the fundamental teachings of a religion, and to mock the people to adhere to it. It is also hate speech to register a website, then fill it with a large archive of hate speech from other websites and messageboards.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:43 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 6:16 pm
Posts: 13375
Location: In a van down by the river
Simon Belmont wrote:
Darth J wrote:
Simon, would you agree with me that it is hate speech to mock the fundamental teachings of a religion, and to claim its history shows that it is completely man-made, and to go through its core doctrines (which its follower consider to be sacred) and talk about how these doctrines are false and the inventions of man?

You do agree with me that that's hate speech, don't you?


Setting another trap that you expect me to walk in to, Darth J? I know how it goes: You ask a loaded question, I answer it, then you find quotes from LDS.org which support your position and deny mine.

But, I do believe it is hate speech to mock the fundamental teachings of a religion, and to mock the people to adhere to it. It is also hate speech to register a website, then fill it with a large archive of hate speech from other websites and messageboards.


Then you do agree that http://LDS.org/?lang=eng is a site for hate speech.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:51 pm 
Darth J wrote:
Then you do agree that http://LDS.org/?lang=eng is a site for hate speech.



Nope.

Image

Edit: So predictable.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:58 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 6:16 pm
Posts: 13375
Location: In a van down by the river
Simon Belmont wrote:
Darth J wrote:
Then you do agree that http://LDS.org/?lang=eng is a site for hate speech.



Nope.

Image

Edit: So predictable.


Oh. It is perfectly fine for the LDS Church "to mock the fundamental teachings of a religion, and to mock the people to adhere to it." It is bigotry when other people do that to the Church, though.

Vendetta thinking and double-standard morality from Simon Belmont. So predictable.

P.S. Thank you for your recognizing this as a trap, which is a tacit acknowledgment that there is a factual basis for what I am alluding to.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:04 pm 
John J. Stewart's Mormonism and the Negro appears to be online, courtesy of Saints Alive.

Back in the '70s I read Alan Cherry (I think a couple of books) but the one that sticks out most is You and Me Lord. He (through a journalist) made a contribution to Mormon Times in 2008:

Having priesthood 'is my better means to serve'.

Quote:
The friend contacted his aunt, who contacted the missionaries, who gave Cherry a copy of the Book of Mormon — which he read in two weeks.

"I would have read it in two days, but I could only read after lights out," he said. "I have never been as excited by literature.... It was as if I had come off of a desert.... I was just consuming all that could be given to me."


Fortunately, Bro. Cherry never went on to become a Mopologist with a sharp axe to grind against "apostates and anti-Mormons".


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:08 pm 
Darth J wrote:

Oh. It is perfectly fine for the LDS Church "to mock the fundamental teachings of a religion, and to mock the people to adhere to it." It is bigotry when other people do that to the Church, though.


I wouldn't be fine if the LDS Church did that, but they do not.

Quote:
P.S. Thank you for your recognizing this as a trap, which is a tacit acknowledgment that there is a factual basis for what I am alluding to.


No, it isn't. The standard scenario that you set up is very predictable.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:35 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 6:16 pm
Posts: 13375
Location: In a van down by the river
Simon Belmont wrote:
Darth J wrote:

Oh. It is perfectly fine for the LDS Church "to mock the fundamental teachings of a religion, and to mock the people to adhere to it." It is bigotry when other people do that to the Church, though.


I wouldn't be fine if the LDS Church did that, but they do not.


You know, ____ Cleopatra didn't spend as much time on de Nile as you do. Here are just two examples:

LeGrand Richards, "Strange Creeds of Christendom", Ensign, Jan. 1973

Would you find it offensive if a Protestant minister gave a talk called "Strange Creeds of Mormonism"?

Jeffrey R. Holland, October 2007 General Conference

In the year A.D. 325 the Roman emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea to address—among other things—the growing issue of God’s alleged “trinity in unity.” What emerged from the heated contentions of churchmen, philosophers, and ecclesiastical dignitaries came to be known (after another 125 years and three more major councils) 4 as the Nicene Creed, with later reformulations such as the Athanasian Creed. These various evolutions and iterations of creeds—and others to come over the centuries—declared the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to be abstract, absolute, transcendent, immanent, consubstantial, coeternal, and unknowable, without body, parts, or passions and dwelling outside space and time. In such creeds all three members are separate persons, but they are a single being, the oft-noted “mystery of the trinity.” They are three distinct persons, yet not three Gods but one. All three persons are incomprehensible, yet it is one God who is incomprehensible.

We agree with our critics on at least that point—that such a formulation for divinity is truly incomprehensible.


He adds, "It is not our purpose to demean any person’s belief nor the doctrine of any religion." After he just barely did that.

Would it be okay with you if a Protestant minister went through the Articles of Faith and the story of the First Vision, and then talked about how it makes no sense to believe in a man-god who lives on a planet by the star Kolob and used to be a mortal man, and has this pyramid scheme to move himself upward by making more and more gods under him?

Quote:
Quote:
P.S. Thank you for your recognizing this as a trap, which is a tacit acknowledgment that there is a factual basis for what I am alluding to.


No, it isn't. The standard scenario that you set up is very predictable.


Backing up what I say? Yes. While your standard scenario is calling legitimate reference to relevant sources "quote mining," relying entirely on argument by assertion, trying to convince everyone that the factual claims of the LDS Church aren't falsifiable because knowledge comes from subjective experience, and calling anyone who points out the implausibility of your cherished beliefs a bigot.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:22 pm 
Priest
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:18 am
Posts: 314
Yep. The Brethren has decided that the entire Curse of Cain/Priesthood-ban thing is a "mistake" of previous brethren. But to protect the fragile testimonies of the Members, they can't "say" that. So, for the good for the Church (of course) they have instructed LDS Public Affairs to simply "deny" the Church ever taught it, that is was "never a doctrine" but "folklore" that "some Members may have believed" but was "never accepted by Church leaders". YES....Public Affairs is blaming "some Members" for it, and presenting the Brethren as "always being against it" and trying to get "some Members" not to believe it. I AM NOT KIDDING! They are re-writing Mormon history (again).

I know John Lund. He was VERY upset when I sent him proof that LDS Public Affairs was lying. Very....very upset! If he left the Church his wife would divorce him and his family would shun him. John Lund is a very honest man....one of the most pure-in-heart men I've ever known.


Yes, in 1962, Alvin Dyer of the First Presidency gave a LONG speech on the status of the Negro. Which was really ridiculous---since he gave the talk at a Norwegian Mission Conference---Norway in 1962 probably two "Negroes" the entire country!!!! Hahahahaha! Mormonism is so damned funny!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:44 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 15282
Hello,

I'm perpetually amazed by a**h***s like you-know who can look at something black and literally say, "Nope. That's white. It's always been white. And anyone who disagrees with me is a bigot."

It ****ing astounds me. The level of denial in the human condition is astounding. THIS is the reason why frauds like Joseph Smith can do what they do. Useful idiots. Crazy.

V/R
Dr. Cam


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:39 pm 
God

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:00 pm
Posts: 3519
slimeone wrote: "But, I do believe it is hate speech to mock the fundamental teachings of a religion, and to mock the people to adhere to it."
******************************
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^+++++++++++++++^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It isn't 'hate speech' when we mock you bumnuts. You and your using copyrighted materiel of others without permission and your idiotic 1915 copyright notice telling us all that your material can be used by anyone, anywhere at any time because anything that old is out of copyright protection.

_________________
"This is how INGORNAT these fools are!" - darricktevenson

Bow your head and mutter, what in hell am I doing here?

infaymos wrote: "Peterson is the defacto king ping of the Mormon Apologetic world."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:42 pm 
Darth J wrote:
You know, f*****g Cleopatra didn't spend as much time on de Nile as you do. Here are just two examples:

LeGrand Richards, "Strange Creeds of Christendom", Ensign, Jan. 1973

Would you find it offensive if a Protestant minister gave a talk called "Strange Creeds of Mormonism"?


That's a weak analogy. A protestant minister would have to give a speech that is much broader than "Mormonism," say "The Strange Creeds of Restorationism." Because Richards's talk was not "The Strange Creeds of [a particular denomination]."

Quote:
Would it be okay with you if a Protestant minister went through the Articles of Faith and the story of the First Vision, and then talked about how it makes no sense to believe in a man-god who lives on a planet by the star Kolob and used to be a mortal man, and has this pyramid scheme to move himself upward by making more and more gods under him?


There you go with your weak analogies again.

Quote:
Backing up what I say?


No, asking loaded questions for which you have several quotes already mined to counter the predicted answer.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:43 pm 
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Hello,

I'm perpetually amazed by a**h***s like you-know who can look at something black and literally say, "Nope. That's white. It's always been white. And anyone who disagrees with me is a bigot."

It ****ing astounds me. The level of denial in the human condition is astounding. THIS is the reason why frauds like Joseph Smith can do what they do. Useful idiots. Crazy.

V/R
Dr. Cam


And I am amazed that a leaf on the ground can so easily dupe you.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:59 pm 
God

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:00 pm
Posts: 3519
slimey one wrote: "And I am amazed that a leaf on the ground can so easily dupe you".
*****************************
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Like the photo of the leaf on the ground you used without permission of the copyright owner, boy?

_________________
"This is how INGORNAT these fools are!" - darricktevenson

Bow your head and mutter, what in hell am I doing here?

infaymos wrote: "Peterson is the defacto king ping of the Mormon Apologetic world."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:08 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:29 pm
Posts: 3599
DarkHelmet wrote:
The blame obviously lies with the members who actually believed what they were being taught. They could have used their free agency and rejected these racist teachings. If they feel they were duped, too bad for them. They made their own bed.


I was puzzled as to why Simon is going on and on in this tread on unrelated subjects. What drew his attention, not the subject matter of which he is unconscious. Then I realized that this post is a parody of what he has said about the culpabilty of exmormons.

I was looking at this post at first taking it at face value. I grew up Mormon in the 60s and think it is possible to later forget some aspects of the situation which made it more difficult to see outside of the doctrine. There were just too many unreliable people speaking about cival rights, communists socialists Jews, and unitarian universalists, Not to mention negroes. For social direction we were supposed to follow the inspired leaders of the church who clearly warned about the dangers of civil rights leaders.

I may have had some questions about the policy but I doubt I was able to completely reject it untill I left the church. Perhaps becomeing older would have allowed more independence of thought.

I could repeat what has been suggested before that the doctrine that we were the special best spirits, born white, American and Mormon can be made more secure by pointing to groups born to inferior positions. It can also be said that believing the superior caste idea in any form creates a dark spot inside a person which does not allow some things to be seen and understood. Leaders who spread this particular darkness are shareing their own darkness with you.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:24 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:38 pm
Posts: 4847
Since gay-rights is the new big social issue, when is someone going to write "The Church and the Homo"?

_________________
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
- Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cassius Review of Books: "The Church and the Negro"
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:10 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 6:16 pm
Posts: 13375
Location: In a van down by the river
Simon Belmont wrote:
Darth J wrote:
You know, f*****g Cleopatra didn't spend as much time on de Nile as you do. Here are just two examples:

LeGrand Richards, "Strange Creeds of Christendom", Ensign, Jan. 1973

Would you find it offensive if a Protestant minister gave a talk called "Strange Creeds of Mormonism"?


That's a weak analogy. A protestant minister would have to give a speech that is much broader than "Mormonism," say "The Strange Creeds of Restorationism." Because Richards's talk was not "The Strange Creeds of [a particular denomination]."


And now we meet Denial's close sibling, Avoid.

You're not making things better; you're making things worse. According to you, Elder Richards is demeaning an entire religion, not just one particular branch of it. Which is a valid point, actually.

My question is very apropos, though, because Mormonism is not a particular denomination, either.

So, again: if it is acceptable for LeGrand Richards to find fault with the strange creeds of traditional Christianity, then why is it not acceptable for a Protestant minister to demean the strange creeds of the Mormon movement?

Quote:
Quote:
Would it be okay with you if a Protestant minister went through the Articles of Faith and the story of the First Vision, and then talked about how it makes no sense to believe in a man-god who lives on a planet by the star Kolob and used to be a mortal man, and has this pyramid scheme to move himself upward by making more and more gods under him?


There you go with your weak analogies again.


Jeffrey R. Holland is pointing out how the traditional beliefs about God in Christianity make no sense. Why is it not acceptable, then, for a Protestant minister to give a sermon about how the Mormon idea of God makes no sense?

Quote:
Quote:
Backing up what I say?


No, asking loaded questions for which you have several quotes already mined to counter the predicted answer.


Let's summarize what you just admitted:

1. Your responses are predictable.
2. LDS teachings are going to contradict your talking points.
3. You know that I will be able to demonstrate this.

Muhammad Ali had, "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee." I suppose you could go with, "Denial like a river in Egypt, avoidance like doing a pogo stick in a minefield." It's a little clunkier, though.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group