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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:23 am 
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Quote:
It is stunningly obvious that neither you, nor Vogel, nor Smith, nor Metcalfe ... nor anyone else in this wretched place, have any appreciation whatsoever for what and with whom you are dealing.

All the better. All the better ...



This one I find somewhat true.

I honestly do not know why so many on this board seem to praise and worship Metcalfe as some sort of expert on the subject, or the critics Hero of the KEP when he a) has not made his position clear, and therefore probably doesn't even have a position, and b) has not published a position on the KEP in any respectable journal. He's also been eerily absent from both forums. It is becoming more and more clear he has no authority on this subject.


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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:30 am 
God

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Simon Belmont wrote:
I honestly do not know why so many on this board seem to praise and worship Metcalfe as some sort of expert on the subject, or the critics Hero of the KEP when he a) has not made his position clear, and therefore probably doesn't even have a position, and b) has not published a position on the KEP in any respectable journal. He's also been eerily absent from both forums. It is becoming more and more clear he has no authority on this subject.


From my many years of observing Brent, I think he doesn't suffer fools gladly. Which explains why he isn't exactly a regular visitor on the boards.

As for him having authority... I'm wondering just who you think DOES have authority on this subject?

You're a newbie, Simon. You might want to keep that in mind, when addressing issues and people who have been working on this for decades. You don't have any idea what you don't know, nor do you realize that what you DO know is a mere molecule.

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:34 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Simon Belmont wrote:
I honestly do not know why so many on this board seem to praise and worship Metcalfe as some sort of expert on the subject, or the critics Hero of the KEP when he a) has not made his position clear, and therefore probably doesn't even have a position, and b) has not published a position on the KEP in any respectable journal. He's also been eerily absent from both forums. It is becoming more and more clear he has no authority on this subject.


You know that "drive-by dumb ass" thing you're so excited about? That's about a person who makes bold, unsupported assertions as if they are substantive insights, and stereotypes as if they are facts.

With that precept in mind, other than Kevin Graham, who is familiar with Metcalfe's arguments, who are the critics who see Metcalfe as their hero of the KEP? Who are the critics who even really care about the KEP?

Also, Simon, since you're all about intellectual honesty and not at all into double standards, I look forward to your announcement that all of the cheerleaders need to stop praising Schryver's theories until his position is published in a respectable journal.

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:10 pm 
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Mr. William "Gookie Cookie/Circle Jerk" Schryver has a long history of changing usernames into an insult. This one is just the latest of his unsavory posting style:

Quote:
DaftJ,


V/R
Dr. Cam

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:16 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mr. William "Gookie Cookie/Circle Jerk" Schryver has a long history of changing usernames into an insult. This one is just the latest of his unsavory posting style:

Quote:
DaftJ,


V/R
Dr. Cam


I liked it better when I was "Dearth J." I liked to think that he was blending "Dear" and "Darth."

Now, apparently I'm just Daffy Duck. However, you will be pleased to know that there is precedent for cartoon ducks among the ranks of the Sith:

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:53 pm 
God
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Quote:
Of course, I still go to church,



Why?

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:17 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Droopy wrote:
Quote:
Of course, I still go to church,



Why?


Why not?

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:28 pm 
God
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Droopy wrote:


Why?


Quote:
Why not?

I wonder if Droopy suggests that since church attendance is so utterly bereft of content, inspiration and joy, that, why would you ever attend and suffer so, unless you were anything less than a fully deluded believer? Sounds rather logical to me.

I see Droopy's question as it would be posed from one death row inmate to another. "If you could get out and be free, "Why" would you come back" (to death row)?

It really is mindboggling to the person still on death row I suppose.


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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:24 pm 
Darth J wrote:
You know that "drive-by dumb ass" thing you're so excited about?


Yes yes, that term fits Joseph Inc. perfectly! A thousand thank yous.

Quote:
That's about a person who makes bold, unsupported assertions as if they are substantive insights, and stereotypes as if they are facts.


Yes, the definition of "drive-by dumb-ass."

Quote:
With that precept in mind, other than Kevin Graham, who is familiar with Metcalfe's arguments, who are the critics who see Metcalfe as their hero of the KEP? Who are the critics who even really care about the KEP?


After "doomsday" several people ran for cover to one Brent Metcalfe. He, and only he would know what to do. When the word came back that Brent "wasn't impressed," the critics let a sigh of relief. If Brent Metcalfe was not impressed, then William Schryver's presentation could be entirely discounted.

CaliforniaKid first broke the news that His Holiness was not impressed:
Quote:
Brent was unimpressed.


Then Kevin Graham high-fives CaliforniaKid thusly:
KG wrote:
Suffice it to say, Brent Metcalfe wasn't impressed.


In the same thread, Trevor joins the Metcalfe bandwagon:
Quote:
I am inclined to agree with what Brent has pointed out thus far.


Other, random Metcalfe worship as of late.

Earlier, Kevin Graham worshiped:
Quote:
With the exception of Chris Smith and Brent Metcalfe, no one else has the requisite understanding of the documents


And Doctor Scratch"
Quote:
The fact that LoaP seems so afraid of Metcalfe says a lot, I think.


Cinepro, the fence-sitter:
Quote:
Brent is my hero


Trevor again:
Quote:
The crux of the matter is that he is intimidated by the idea of having to debate Brent


thews, the nasty one, glorifies Brent:
Quote:
I'm pretty sure Will knows that in a live debate, in a public forum, even on stage, Brent has the clear advantage!


TBSkeptic:
Quote:
Will was grandstanding while holding a 2-7 offsuit, and Brent called him on it.


RockSlider:
Quote:
Brent has been the only one with color photos for years and a acknowledged expert in the field.


Trevor again:
Quote:
Frankly, I wouldn't want to debate Metcalfe or Vogel publicly.


truth danver:
Quote:
Well, I suppose this is Will's only out. I mean he surely can't debate Brent and come out standing up,


Paul Osborne the perpetual drunk:
Quote:
Brent is going to kill you.



Quote:
Also, Simon, since you're all about intellectual honesty and not at all into double standards, I look forward to your announcement that all of the cheerleaders need to stop praising Schryver's theories until his position is published in a respectable journal.


He is going to be published shortly.


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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:30 pm 
harmony wrote:
From my many years of observing Brent, I think he doesn't suffer fools gladly. Which explains why he isn't exactly a regular visitor on the boards.


Yes, I know. One challenging question or comment and he flutters off like a delicate butterfly. He can sure dish it out, but he absolutely cannot take it.

Quote:
As for him having authority... I'm wondering just who you think DOES have authority on this subject?


Try this on for size, harmony. GOD has authority on the subject.

Quote:
You're a newbie, Simon.


How do you know? I may be the most published person on here. My identity is unknown. I could be Barak Obama for all you know.

Quote:
You might want to keep that in mind, when addressing issues and people who have been working on this for decades. You don't have any idea what you don't know, nor do you realize that what you DO know is a mere molecule.


Pardon me for not kneeling to worship Metcalfe like almost everyone here does.


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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:33 pm 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
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Simon,

Look. No one is going to take you seriously so long as you go on lying about your sockpuppets. Frankly, I was sort of blown away that the guy who posts as "Skywalker"/"oxygenadam" would lie about having a sockpuppet, though I guess I should have expected it. If you want to come clean, I'm ready to forgive, but this charade has gone on long enough. It's disgusting, and it's going to ruin your shot at celestial glory.

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"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14


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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:41 pm 
Doctor Scratch wrote:
Simon,

Look. No one is going to take you seriously so long as you go on lying about your sockpuppets.


Wait a second, it has not been established that I am a sock puppet. I am not. Since there is no way for me to prove this, you will have to take my word for it.

Quote:
Frankly, I was sort of blown away that the guy who posts as "Skywalker"/"oxygenadam" would lie about having a sockpuppet,


I do not know who "Skywalker" is other than the few posts I have read by him at MA&DB

Quote:
If you want to come clean, I'm ready to forgive, but this charade has gone on long enough. It's disgusting, and it's going to ruin your shot at celestial glory.


If you want to come clean that Joseph is a sock puppet of yours, I'm ready to forgive, but this charade has gone on long enough. It's disgusting, and it's going to ruin your shot at celestial glory.


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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:41 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Simon Belmont wrote:

Pardon me for not kneeling to worship Metcalfe like almost everyone here does.


There are currently 998 registered users on this board. You've identified 10 who you say are worshipping Metcalfe, and your characterization is highly questionable. You think that 10 out of 998 is "almost everyone"?

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:44 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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harmony wrote:

You're a newbie, Simon.


Simon Belmont wrote:
How do you know? I may be the most published person on here. My identity is unknown. I could be Barak Obama for all you know.


President Obama has published on issues in Mormonism?

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And the life of the ebony clock went out with that of the last of the gay. And the flames of the tripods expired. And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all.


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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:14 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Darth J wrote:
With that precept in mind [drive-by dumb ass], other than Kevin Graham, who is familiar with Metcalfe's arguments, who are the critics who see Metcalfe as their hero of the KEP? Who are the critics who even really care about the KEP?


Simon Belmot wrote:
After "doomsday" several people ran for cover to one Brent Metcalfe. He, and only he would know what to do. When the word came back that Brent "wasn't impressed," the critics let a sigh of relief. If Brent Metcalfe was not impressed, then William Schryver's presentation could be entirely discounted.

CaliforniaKid first broke the news that His Holiness was not impressed:
"Brent was unimpressed."


Chris Smith (CaliforniaKid) has his own published research about the Book of Abraham and does his own work on the Kirtland Egyptian Papers. He's also a PhD candidate at Claremont. Your characterization here is somewhat less than impressive, since you don't know who you're talking about. Here's Chris' blog:

http://chriscarrollsmith.blogspot.com/

Sorry, Simon, a person who is published in this area and who studies the KEP himself doesn't count as a disciple of Metcalfe. Try again.

Quote:
Then Kevin Graham high-fives CaliforniaKid thusly:
"Suffice it to say, Brent Metcalfe wasn't impressed."


Since my question was "who besides Kevin Graham," you're not addressing what I asked. And since Kevin has extensively studied the KEP, and is not blindly following Metcalfe (this isn't to say that I'm convinced either of them are right), you're 0 for 2 so far.

Quote:
In the same thread, Trevor joins the Metcalfe bandwagon:
"I am inclined to agree with what Brent has pointed out thus far."


Trevor has said extensively on this board that he isn't in any camp, and that he isn't set on any of these theories about the KEP. Trevor did not say that he agrees with Metcalfe's own theories; he said he agreed with what Metcalfe said about Schryver's presentation.

Quote:
Other, random Metcalfe worship as of late.

Earlier, Kevin Graham worshiped:
"With the exception of Chris Smith and Brent Metcalfe, no one else has the requisite understanding of the documents."


My original question was "who besides Kevin." You've now counted him twice, and said he's a Metcalfe worshipper "as of late," when Kevin's online debates about the KEP have been going on for years.

If this is indicative of your comprehension and insights, then I'm sure your unpublished purported research papers must be truly dazzling.

Quote:
And Doctor Scratch"
"The fact that LoaP seems so afraid of Metcalfe says a lot, I think."


Scratch's main thing is meta-commentary about the world of Mormon apologetics. You might deduce that from being on this board for more than 10 minutes. His remarks about how the apologetic community reacts to Metcalfe is not equivalent to endorsing Metcalfe's theories.

Quote:
Cinepro, the fence-sitter:

"Brent is my hero"


Uh huh.

cinepro wrote:

Just to be clear, I'm not a supporter of Metcalfe.

But even if his only accomplishment in life is to have given Will a public platform to act so foolishly and provide us all with such an entertaining view of his spin down the drain, it will have been enough.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14140&p=351554&hilit=schryver#p351554


Quote:
Trevor again:
"The crux of the matter is that he is intimidated by the idea of having to debate Brent"


Yes, we'll just overlook Trevor's repeatedly saying he is open to Schryver's conclusions and that he is not in any camp on this issue. That way, you can characterize this as an endorsement of Metcalfe's theories, instead of a statement about Schryver.

Oh, I hope to read these unpublished research papers of yours someday.

Quote:
thews, the nasty one, glorifies Brent:

"I'm pretty sure Will knows that in a live debate, in a public forum, even on stage, Brent has the clear advantage!"


And you take that as a blanket endorsement of Metcalfe's theories, and not a statement about personalities and the strength of Schryver's own arguments, because........?

Quote:
TBSkeptic:
"Will was grandstanding while holding a 2-7 offsuit, and Brent called him on it."


And you take that as a blanket endorsement of Metcalfe's theories, and not a statement about personalities and the strength of Schryver's own arguments, because........?

Quote:
RockSlider:
Brent has been the only one with color photos for years and a acknowledged expert in the field.


And this statement is inaccurate because........? (Note: if nobody acknowledges that Metcalfe is an expert, why is Schryver singling him out?)

Quote:
Trevor again:
"Frankly, I wouldn't want to debate Metcalfe or Vogel publicly."


Truly, your intellectual honesty is impressive. Since, you know, you included the context of what Trevor said IN THE POST YOU'RE QUOTING:

Trevor wrote:

The real issue, obviously, is that he is intimidated by the thought of debating someone. Debating is really quite a different kettle of fish than presenting at a conference or publishing an article. Often, it is not about who is right so much as who is better at debating. I don't blame Will for balking at a debate. Frankly, I wouldn't want to debate Metcalfe or Vogel publicly.


Quote:
truth danver:
"Well, I suppose this is Will's only out. I mean he surely can't debate Brent and come out standing up,


And you take that as a blanket endorsement of Metcalfe's theories, and not a statement about personalities and the strength of Schryver's own arguments, because........?

Quote:
Paul Osborne the perpetual drunk:
"Brent is going to kill you.


And you take that as a blanket endorsement of Metcalfe's theories, and not a statement about personalities and the strength of Schryver's own arguments, because........?

If Joseph is the drive-by dumb ass, then you are already establishing yourself as the lingering, hypocritical, intellectually dishonest dumb ass. Joseph is the dumb ass surgical strike. You are the dumb ass Vietnam.

Darth J wrote:
Also, Simon, since you're all about intellectual honesty and not at all into double standards, I look forward to your announcement that all of the cheerleaders need to stop praising Schryver's theories until his position is published in a respectable journal.


Quote:
He is going to be published shortly.


You don't know that, because you don't know the future. You expect it to be published shortly, as do I. But you avoided the question, and that's because you are the most hypocritical defender of the faith I have seen on one of these message boards, and that is saying a lot. As soon as you are willing to apply your own standards to your side, you might have a chance of anything you say being taken seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:52 am 
Darth J wrote:
There are currently 998 registered users on this board. You've identified 10 who you say are worshipping Metcalfe, and your characterization is highly questionable. You think that 10 out of 998 is "almost everyone"?


There are about 6 billion potential users of this board, too. Shall we include them in the ratio?

No, it seems silly to imagine that I meant out of everyone who has ever posted anything on this board, most worship Metcalfe. Nonsense, I was, as any literate person will notice, referring to the latest flurry about the KEP, which began at the beginning of august.


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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:54 am 
God

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simone the morgbutt wrote: "If you want to come clean that Joseph is a sock puppet of yours, I'm ready to forgive, but this charade has gone on long enough. It's disgusting, and it's going to ruin your shot at celestial glory."

Not even close girl. Now go back to putting on your panty hose.

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Bow your head and mutter, what in hell am I doing here?

infaymos wrote: "Peterson is the defacto king ping of the Mormon Apologetic world."


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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:00 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Simon Belmont wrote:
Darth J wrote:
There are currently 998 registered users on this board. You've identified 10 who you say are worshipping Metcalfe, and your characterization is highly questionable. You think that 10 out of 998 is "almost everyone"?


There are about 6 billion potential users of this board, too. Shall we include them in the ratio?

No, it seems silly to imagine that I meant out of everyone who has ever posted anything on this board, most worship Metcalfe. Nonsense, I was, as any literate person will notice, referring to the latest flurry about the KEP, which began at the beginning of august.


Then you are hopelessly ignorant of what all the hoopla is about. The apologetics cheerleaders are trying to make this into an argument about proving that the Book of Abraham is true, and if you dispute that, go hang around on MADB for a few minutes.

Thank you, however, for being a good Mormon apologist and emphasizing that no literate person would infer what you meant from the plain meaning of the words you used.

And not only is your "almost everyone" a baseless, sweeping statement, your supposed support for that depends on taking the posts of several board members out of context. I don't know if you fully grasp how you are consistently embodying the worst stereotypes of Mormon apologetics.

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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:06 am 
Darth J wrote:
Chris Smith (CaliforniaKid) has his own published research about the Book of Abraham and does his own work on the Kirtland Egyptian Papers. He's also a PhD candidate at Claremont. Your characterization here is somewhat less than impressive, since you don't know who you're talking about. Here's Chris' blog:


Yes, I know who Chris Smith is. He stands on his own as an intellectual, but he still made it a point to say "Metcalfe was unimpressed" as if that was the final say on the KEP.

Quote:
Since my question was "who besides Kevin Graham," you're not addressing what I asked. And since Kevin has extensively studied the KEP, and is not blindly following Metcalfe (this isn't to say that I'm convinced either of them are right), you're 0 for 2 so far.


If you're going to impose conditions, why do you not just say "who, besides active posters on this forum." You will surely win the argument then!

Quote:
Trevor has said extensively on this board that he isn't in any camp, and that he isn't set on any of these theories about the KEP. Trevor did not say that he agrees with Metcalfe's own theories; he said he agreed with what Metcalfe said about Schryver's presentation.


I did not say that Metcalfe was worshiped in any specific way. Theories, what he has to say about Schryver's presentation, personal tastes in music, etc., are all worshiped.


Quote:
Scratch's main thing is meta-commentary about the world of Mormon apologetics. You might deduce that from being on this board for more than 10 minutes. His remarks about how the apologetic community reacts to Metcalfe is not equivalent to endorsing Metcalfe's theories.


Again, he may not endorse Metcalfe's theories, but he worships the man for being against the apologists on the KEP.

Quote:
Cinepro, the fence-sitter:

"Brent is my hero"

Uh huh.


This one stands. He could say anything before or after, but the fact is Brent is his hero.

Quote:
Yes, we'll just overlook Trevor's repeatedly saying he is open to Schryver's conclusions and that he is not in any camp on this issue. That way, you can characterize this as an endorsement of Metcalfe's theories, instead of a statement about Schryver.


I said nothing about theories. I said Metcalfe himself.

Quote:
Oh, I hope to read these unpublished research papers of yours someday.


I'll tell you what... perhaps I'll hire you to represent me in my tort case against Pfizer.

Quote:
And you take that as a blanket endorsement of Metcalfe's theories, and not a statement about personalities and the strength of Schryver's own arguments, because........?


I said nothing about theories. People worship the legendary man who is Metcalfe.

Quote:

And you take that as a blanket endorsement of Metcalfe's theories, and not a statement about personalities and the strength of Schryver's own arguments, because........?


I said nothing about theories. People worship the legendary man who is Metcalfe.

Quote:
And this statement is inaccurate because........? (Note: if nobody acknowledges that Metcalfe is an expert, why is Schryver singling him out?)


It may not be in accurate, but it is an example of Metcalfe worship. You are welcome to begin a thread about Metcalfe's theories or inaccurate statements by other posters about him, but on this thread let us stay on topic.

Quote:
And you take that as a blanket endorsement of Metcalfe's theories, and not a statement about personalities and the strength of Schryver's own arguments, because........?


I said nothing about theories. People worship the legendary man who is Metcalfe.

Quote:
And you take that as a blanket endorsement of Metcalfe's theories, and not a statement about personalities and the strength of Schryver's own arguments, because........?


I said nothing about theories. People worship the legendary man who is Metcalfe.

Quote:
If Joseph is the drive-by dumb ass, then you are already establishing yourself as the lingering, hypocritical, intellectually dishonest dumb ass. Joseph is the dumb ass surgical strike. You are the dumb ass Vietnam.


I like you, Darth J, we share the same sense of humor, and we both like Star Trek: TNG.

Darth J wrote:
You don't know that, because you don't know the future. You expect it to be published shortly, as do I. But you avoided the question, and that's because you are the most hypocritical defender of the faith I have seen on one of these message boards, and that is saying a lot. As soon as you are willing to apply your own standards to your side, you might have a chance of anything you say being taken seriously.




Well, I also do not know that a ton of bricks will not fall on my head as I walk out the door to go to work on Monday. I am fairly certain that this will not happen, however, so I am safe in saying "a ton of bricks will not fall on my head as I walk out the door for work on Monday."


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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:26 am 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
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Simon Belmont wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:
Simon,

Look. No one is going to take you seriously so long as you go on lying about your sockpuppets.


Wait a second, it has not been established that I am a sock puppet. I am not. Since there is no way for me to prove this, you will have to take my word for it.


Nope. You're Skywalker/oxygenadam. And as long as you keep denying that, you're a liar, too.

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Frankly, I was sort of blown away that the guy who posts as "Skywalker"/"oxygenadam" would lie about having a sockpuppet,


I do not know who "Skywalker" is other than the few posts I have read by him at MA&DB


Gee, that's funny, since you were, just the other day, claiming enough familiarity w/ Skywalker's posts to say, "He uses contractions, and I do not." Lol. I bet you thought to yourself, "Yeah, here's what I'll do.... I'll put everyone's screen names in bold, and then, to throw them even further off the scent, I'll never use contractions! Yeah, that's it! That's the ticket!" The problem is that you have the exact same preoccupations, the exact same arguments, etc.

As Beastie said: Lame.

_________________
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14


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 Post subject: Re: An open letter to the Deseret News/Mormon Times
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:29 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 5:16 pm
Posts: 12563
Location: A castellated abbey
Darth J wrote:
Chris Smith (CaliforniaKid) has his own published research about the Book of Abraham and does his own work on the Kirtland Egyptian Papers. He's also a PhD candidate at Claremont. Your characterization here is somewhat less than impressive, since you don't know who you're talking about. Here's Chris' blog:


Simon Belmont wrote:
Yes, I know who Chris Smith is. He stands on his own as an intellectual, but he still made it a point to say "Metcalfe was unimpressed" as if that was the final say on the KEP.


No, Chris has more than had his own say about the KEP. You're desperately trying to twist what happened to fit your position. Mormon apologetics at its finest.

Darth J wrote:
Since my question was "who besides Kevin Graham," you're not addressing what I asked. And since Kevin has extensively studied the KEP, and is not blindly following Metcalfe (this isn't to say that I'm convinced either of them are right), you're 0 for 2 so far.


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If you're going to impose conditions, why do you not just say "who, besides active posters on this forum." You will surely win the argument then!


But you haven't demonstrated the "active posters on this board" premise, either. I think it's special that you undertook to answer my questions, but now say you didn't understand it because your taking people's posts out of context isn't working.

Darth J wrote:
Trevor has said extensively on this board that he isn't in any camp, and that he isn't set on any of these theories about the KEP. Trevor did not say that he agrees with Metcalfe's own theories; he said he agreed with what Metcalfe said about Schryver's presentation.


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I did not say that Metcalfe was worshiped in any specific way. Theories, what he has to say about Schryver's presentation, personal tastes in music, etc., are all worshiped.


Oh, so you didn't understand that this was all about the KEP after all, but were just generally making observations about whether people like Metcalfe as a person, even though your original statement and my question were about Metcalfe as "hero of the KEP."

Darth J wrote:
Scratch's main thing is meta-commentary about the world of Mormon apologetics. You might deduce that from being on this board for more than 10 minutes. His remarks about how the apologetic community reacts to Metcalfe is not equivalent to endorsing Metcalfe's theories.


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Again, he may not endorse Metcalfe's theories, but he worships the man for being against the apologists on the KEP.


Just so we're clear:

Mormons singing hymns praising Joseph Smith and saying he mingles with gods, and saying only Jesus has done more than him for the salvation of man = not worshipping Joseph Smith

Admiring that Metcalfe is willing to take on Schryver = worship

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Cinepro, the fence-sitter:

"Brent is my hero"

Uh huh.


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This one stands. He could say anything before or after, but the fact is Brent is his hero.


In what context? I also said Metcalfe is my hero because he's working on Halo:Reach, and said in the same post that I don't subscribe to his or anyone else's KEP theory at this point. So now you're explicitly admitting to taking things out of context to try and prove your point.

Darth J wrote:
Yes, we'll just overlook Trevor's repeatedly saying he is open to Schryver's conclusions and that he is not in any camp on this issue. That way, you can characterize this as an endorsement of Metcalfe's theories, instead of a statement about Schryver.


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I said nothing about theories. I said Metcalfe himself.


No, you didn't. You said "hero of the KEP."

Darth J wrote:
Oh, I hope to read these unpublished research papers of yours someday.


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I'll tell you what... perhaps I'll hire you to represent me in my tort case against Pfizer.


I don't know, Simon. If your case is based on contriving an argument and then twisting what people said out of context to make it fit, then I'm not what you're looking for.

Darth J wrote:
And you take that as a blanket endorsement of Metcalfe's theories, and not a statement about personalities and the strength of Schryver's own arguments, because........?


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I said nothing about theories. People worship the legendary man who is Metcalfe.


You said "hero of the KEP." Keep trying to unring the bell, though.

Darth J wrote:
And this statement is inaccurate because........? (Note: if nobody acknowledges that Metcalfe is an expert, why is Schryver singling him out?)


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It may not be in accurate, but it is an example of Metcalfe worship. You are welcome to begin a thread about Metcalfe's theories or inaccurate statements by other posters about him, but on this thread let us stay on topic.


It is a topic that you brought up, Simon. This whole thing is about the apologist crowd straw man that "critics" are relying on Metcalfe's theories about the KEP to justify not believing in the Book of Abraham. You specifically said that he was all these people's "hero of the KEP." You're talking about a specific context, and now you're acting as if all this is completely divorced from Metcalfe's KEP theories.

Darth J wrote:
If Joseph is the drive-by dumb ass, then you are already establishing yourself as the lingering, hypocritical, intellectually dishonest dumb ass. Joseph is the dumb ass surgical strike. You are the dumb ass Vietnam.


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I like you, Darth J, we share the same sense of humor, and we both like Star Trek: TNG.


But what we don't share is a love of b***s***.

Darth J wrote:
You don't know that, because you don't know the future. You expect it to be published shortly, as do I. But you avoided the question, and that's because you are the most hypocritical defender of the faith I have seen on one of these message boards, and that is saying a lot. As soon as you are willing to apply your own standards to your side, you might have a chance of anything you say being taken seriously.


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Well, I also do not know that a ton of bricks will not fall on my head as I walk out the door to go to work on Monday. I am fairly certain that this will not happen, however, so I am safe in saying "a ton of bricks will not fall on my head as I walk out the door for work on Monday."


And you're right back to avoiding the question.

_________________
And the life of the ebony clock went out with that of the last of the gay. And the flames of the tripods expired. And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all.


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