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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:33 pm 
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Darth J wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
A little OT: I was thoroughly inspired by the map of Italia, to the point where I searched up airline tickets to Napoli, where I would dearly LOVE to visit. Fares are over $1100.00 from where I live and that doesn't begin to factor in hotels, food, transportation, and spending money.

So yeah, thanks for totally ruining my freaking day, DJ.


You could just try going to Olive Garden. I hear that that's just like being in Italy!


LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:50 pm 
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Spurven Ten Sing wrote:
Doctor J,
What is the connection between Hagoth and the Isles of the sea to the North. May I suggest Scandinavia?


Dr. J responds:

Image

STS, it is amazing how you were able to draw that conclusion.

Although it should not really be amazing when we consider how neatly and logically the details of the Book of Mormon fall into place when envisioned in the correct geographical setting.

The Book of Mormon teaches that the Lamanites will blossom as the rose. And we see Christianity taking hold on many islands of the sea: Scandanavia, the British Isles, Malta, Sardinia, Corsica, Gibraltar........

Who can seriously doubt that a remnant of Lamanite blood persist among the peoples on the islands of Europe. descended as they are from Hagoth and his followers?


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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:31 pm 
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Just a bump for one the best threads in a long time.

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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:46 pm 
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Tator wrote:
Just a bump for one the best threads in a long time.


I still have some ongoing research on this topic, but I also need almost a quarter of a million credits to rank up to general in Reach.

Sometimes my military duties interfere with my scholarly pursuits.


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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:15 am 
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Darth J has, I think, pretty much killed, buried and nailed the coffin shut on the idea the Mesoamerica is the setting for the Book of Mormon, and then thrown the coffin into Mount Doom, before dropping Mt. Doom under the continental plates.

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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:01 am 
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Now that a temple is going to be built in Rome, wouldn't this be the perfect time for the Church to publicly promote the Italian Book of Mormon theory? Selling the Book of Mormon to Latin Americans as being their heritage and their story was a great missionary success. The church could do something similar for lost sheep of Italy - come and learn about your ancestors and how you are an elect (but fallen) people in the Lord's eyes. Rather than remaining filthy and loathsome you too can become as fair and delightsome as the saints in Utah (conditional on obedience to the restored gospel of course). You have a special destiny in these latter days. But first you need to root out and destroy the secret combinations that exist among you (Mafia, Opus Dei with its albino assassin monks, etc).


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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:04 am 
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Phillip wrote:
Now that a temple is going to be built in Rome, wouldn't this be the perfect time for the Church to publicly promote the Italian Book of Mormon theory? Selling the Book of Mormon to Latin Americans as being their heritage and their story was a great missionary success. The church could do something similar for lost sheep of Italy - come and learn about your ancestors and how you are an elect (but fallen) people in the Lord's eyes. Rather than remaining filthy and loathsome you too can become as fair and delightsome as the saints in Utah (conditional on obedience to the restored gospel of course). You have a special destiny in these latter days. But first you need to root out and destroy the secret combinations that exist among you (Mafia, Opus Dei with its albino assassin monks, etc).


The parallels keep on stacking up!

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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:36 pm 
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Phillip wrote:
...Opus Dei with its albino assassin monks...

DaVinciCode??? It is worth to read one time. (not be worth a fillip ...sorry... there are cases not to leave out ... nothing personal)

There are books worth to read many times.
Ask Blixa.

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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:50 am 
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ludwigm wrote:
Phillip wrote:
...Opus Dei with its albino assassin monks...

DaVinciCode??? It is worth to read one time. (not be worth a fillip ...sorry... there are cases not to leave out ... nothing personal)

There are books worth to read many times.
Ask Blixa.

Are you suggesting that the DaVinci code is not a reliable source of information about the Catholic Church? Its been one of my primary references in my research on Christianity, along with the sophisticated, objective analysis provided by scholars like Hitchens and Harris.


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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:32 am 
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Phillip wrote:
Are you suggesting that the DaVinci code is not a reliable source of information about the Catholic Church?

It's about as reliable a source as the Catholic church itself is.

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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:46 am 
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Some Schmo wrote:
Phillip wrote:
Are you suggesting that the DaVinci code is not a reliable source of information about the Catholic Church?

It's about as reliable a source as the Catholic church itself is.

Infallible? I hope so or otherwise I'm going to have to rewrite my entire Ph.D. dissertation on the role of albino assassin monks in 14th century papal elections.


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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:58 am 
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Phillip wrote:
Are you suggesting that the DaVinci code is not a reliable source of information about the Catholic Church?
No. I don't suggest.

I claim it.

Quote:
... my entire Ph.D. dissertation on the role of albino assassin monks in 14th century papal elections ...
Marvelous topic. I am willing to read it.
.

.

Shades!!! Where are the smilies???

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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:34 pm 
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:)

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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:11 pm 
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Phillip wrote:
Some Schmo wrote:
It's about as reliable a source as the Catholic church itself is.

Infallible? I hope so or otherwise I'm going to have to rewrite my entire Ph.D. dissertation on the role of albino assassin monks in 14th century papal elections.

I don't know your background so I don't know if you're joking or serious about the idea that the Catholic church is infallible.

If you're joking, then lol.

If you're serious, then LMAO.

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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:03 pm 
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Ray A wrote:
Challenging the Italy setting for the Book of Mormon would be a Malay setting:

A MALAY SITE FOR BOOK OF Mormon EVENTS (PDF) (Sunstone, March 2004)



IMO, That is the best geography setting for the Book of Mormon.

Quote:
Malay Penninsula Theory

This one is another relatively new theory. The theory is that the archeological findings in Mesoamerica do not support Book of Mormon civilizations and also that Lehi and company couldn’t feasibly make the journey 16,000 miles to the Americas. Therefore, they landed on the Malay Penninsula , which is in the area of Singapore and Thailand.



Link: http://graceforgrace.com/2009/09/08/boo ... u-believe/



It would have been too far for Lehi and his group to have sailed all of that way to Central America.
And Penninsula is correctly spelled Peninsula.

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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:56 pm 
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Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location...

Damn. That shoots down my theory that the Book of Mormon took place in Middle Earth.


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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:22 pm 
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This posted material moved to a more proper place and site in this very Forum:
SUPREME BEING (the ONE GOD) x Distinct Gods x TREE OF LIFE,
http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20643&p=506964#p506964

Thus the MODERN SYMBOL of ISRAEL (political symbol, David Star) is EXACTLY the same OLD SYMBOL OF ISRAEL (religious symbol, Menorah, Temple Symbol). There are many other ways to demonstrate the equivalence and also the equivalence with TREE OF LIFE (the very old past and the FUTURE DAYS, after the END OF DAYS). ELYSAB.


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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:38 am 
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Darth J wrote:
Since the Lord has not revealed the location of where the Book of Mormon narrative took place, we can look at parallels with other cultures to deduce what real-world place is a likely place for the civilizations described in the scripture to determine where it most likely took place.

According to the Joseph Smith History canonized in The Pearl of Great Price, the angel Moroni told him that the golden plates were "an account of the former inhabitants of this continent." Many readers assume that "this continent" means North America. However, a careful reading of D&C 133 indicates that all the land mass in the world is really one continent from the Lord's point of view:

23 He shall command the great deep, and it shall be driven back into the north countries, and the islands shall become one land;
24 And the land of Jerusalem and the land of Zion shall be turned back into their own place, and the earth shall be like as it was in the days before it was divided.


D&C 133. Therefore, it is clear that "this continent" means "the earth," and we should not assume that "this continent" means only North America, as other readers have incorrectly concluded. Because the entire earth is "this continent," the Book of Mormon taking place in Europe is really not a problem if we understand how the Lord reckons things.

Key features of Book of Mormon geography are that there is a western sea and an eastern sea and the land is longer from north to south than from east to west.

Boo-yah!

Image

Also important in Book of Mormon geography is the river Sidon, the only river mentioned by name, which stretched north and south. Although some believe that the Sidon ran northward, the text of the Book of Mormon does not actually say that, and it is more likely that the river Sidon ran to the southwest and emptied into the sea west. Like this:

Image

Volcanic activity also appears to play a role in Book of Mormon geography (3 Nephi 8:5-18). Vesuvius and Mount Etna, anyone?

What about some of the features of the civilizations themselves? I don't have time right now to explain how the Jaredites were the Etruscans, so let's just look at some highlights of Jaredite and Nephite civilization and their parallels in ancient Italy.

Buildings and structures made of cement? Check. (Note that concrete is cement with additional ingredients.)

Barley and other grains? Check.

Silk? Yes sir.

Complex roads/highways? You bet.

Metal swords? You better believe it.

Breastplates, helmets, and other armor for soldiers? You tell me:

Image

Horses? Yes.

Elephants, goats, cattle, swine, flocks? Indeed.

Chariots? Come on, you've seen Ben Hur.

Image

Metallurgy? Of course.

Gold, silver, pearls, costly apparel? Yes, sir.

An urbanized, agrarian society? That's exactly what the ancient Romans were.

Writing? Check it out:

Image

A lunar and solar calendar? Another bull's eye!

Fortifications in times of war? They had that, too:

Image

One puzzler, at first glance, might be: how did the golden plates end up buried in upstate New York when the Book of Mormon happened in Italy? The Book of Mormon describes three times when the Lord inspired people to make a journey by sea: the Jaredites, the Lehite party, and the Mulekites. There is no reason not to suppose that the Lord could not have also inspired Moroni to journey across the sea (and probably instruct him how to build a vessel, as with Nephi and the brother of Jared).

Incidentally, placing the Book of Mormon in ancient Italy also resolves that old chestnut critics like to point out that there are Greek names in the Book of Mormon, like Lachoneus, Timothy, and Alpha and Omega. It is well known that the Romans were heavily influenced by Greece, and that Greek was widely spoken in the Roman Empire. Thus, this so-called mistake of Greek names is dead and buried. There are also many aspects of Rome's interaction with Egypt, which interestingly parallels the Egyptian fetish we seem to find repeatedly in the Book of Mormon.

The above is just a brief introduction, but it should at least give the critics pause that maybe their issue with the Book of Mormon is that they're looking in the wrong place.



Wow ...its weird. I was just reviewing some pictures from the Hubble revealing in great detail some of the surface features on Mars. I spotted virtually 100% accurate contours that match the geographic details of middle Italy. Just as I was about to gasp, I was set back in my chair by what appeared to be a small stack of golden plates.

This PROVES it. The Book of Mormon is from MARS, and it was returned there to guide the people of Mars who are 7' tall, live for a thousand years and drive "chariots" that look suspiciously like Amish buggies.

-BH

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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:52 am 
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In a recent thread, board member and moderator Stormy Waters has noted some of the fanciful speculation regarding the "skin of blackness" that the Nephites observed among their Lamanite antagonists in The Book of Mormon. As with other aspects of The Book of Mormon, the contrast between those of "white" skin considering themselves to be righteous and the judgmental pronouncements they gave to those of dark skin perfectly fits an ancient Italian setting for this holy scripture.

In reading ancient Mediterranean texts like The Book of Mormon, we must be careful not to impose our presentist assumptions on what the authors were recording. Many modern Caucasian people believe that a suntan is a desirable, even prestigious feature. But it was not so in ancient Greece and Italy. Ancient Italians believed that pale skin was a sign of wealth and class, while skin that had been tanned by the Sun was the sure mark of a slave or servant.

http://thecourieronline.co.uk/2012/11/a ... -fake-tan/

Right up until the 1920s, the big idea was that pale is beautiful. This was mainly because having a suntan was seen as being poor. In Ancient Rome, for example, the lady of the house would have had servants and slaves to do the errands. Heaven forbid that you would be outside doing this yourself, with the sun burning your precious skin. In short, being pale meant being wealthy.

In fact, members of the upper class in ancient Italy would often use cosmetics to enhance a pale tone for their skin.

http://www.guide4living.com/skincancer/sun-tan.htm

But a sun tan in bygone centuries was confined to the poor and those working as servants or on the fields.

Back in the days of Ancient Rome and Greece a tan was a complete "no no". Women used lead paint to whiten their faces - unfortunately they didn't realise they were killing themselves through lead poisoning and premature death was quite common!


http://www.glamoursurf.com/articles/art ... 110992.htm

Women of ancient Greece and Rome used lead paints and chalks to whiten their faces. Unfortunately this beauty treatment could cause death through slow lead poisoning. By the mid-10th century, arsenic became the preferred skin whitener, once again with sometimes deadly results. During the reign of Queen Elizabeth, women painted thin blue lines of their foreheads to give their skin a translucent look, and carried parasols or wore masks whenever they ventured outdoors.

Skin color became that visible definer - one that separated working classes from the ruling classes. Pale skin belonged to the leisure upper classes, while darker skin indicated a life of outdoor labor. The paler one's skin the higher the class, and men and women went to great lengths to be pale.

Before the Industrial Revolution - bronzed bodies belonged to manual laborers. To be brown in those days was a symbol of low social class. Pale, porcelain skin was in vogue - mainly because rich people stayed indoors.


Now, we must remember who it was that authored The Book of Mormon. It was the upper class. Nephi was the son of a wealthy man (Lehi), and became a king over his people after reaching the Italian peninsula. Mormon and Moroni, who compiled the Nephite records, were military leaders, a class held in high esteem in the ancient Roman world. And we can reasonably infer that the authors whose work Mormon compiled were of the upper class, since they were largely descended from kings (or reges nefitorum, as the people of the ancient Italian peninsula would have said) and obviously had the leisure time and resources to become educated in esoteric matters such as reading and writing in reformed Egyptian. Plus the plates on which The Book of Mormon was inscribed were made of gold, which has since time immemorial been a symbol of wealth and prestige.

It is no wonder, then, that the upper-class keepers of these records would look down upon those who engaged in manual, outdoor labor---which The Book of Mormon explicitly tells us to be the case with the Lamanites. Naturally, the patrician Nephites would have considered their lower-class Lamanite bretheren to have become "dark" and "loathsome." As the Lamanites rejected the prosperity gospel of the upper-class Nephites and were constrained to perform what the Nephite kings and patricians considered to be servile, menial work out of doors, the intense Mediterranean sun would have given the Lamanites a healthy brown tan. Anyone who has "boots on the ground" experience with a summer or two in Italy can attest to this fact, but unfortunately many of those who speculate about Book of Mormon geography have little or no experience with the peninsula where the Book of Mormon peoples lived.

The suntan that would have occurred from laboring outside under the intense Mediterranean sun also explains why The Book of Mormon indicates that the Lamanites took on a dark skin tone almost immediately after rejecting the prosperity gospel for a life of hardship and manual labor. We see also in The Book of Mormon an account of a few Lamanites who left their decadent fellows and reunited with the Nephites, whereupon the Lamanites' skins very suddenly became white like unto the Nephites. This of course is perfectly consistent with these Lamanites adopting the Nephites' upper-class lifestyle, which would cause their tans to fade because they would have ceased their outdoor menial labor. And of course the treatments that upper-class females used in ancient Italy to make their skins more pale would contribute to the sudden whitening of the Lamanites' skins.

Although it may at first appear troubling to us to consider that the ancient Italian Nephite prophets harshly judged the class and suntans of the Lamanites, we must remember that prophets are not perfect, and have prejudices and cultural norms like all of us do. Keep in mind that the first page of The Book of Mormon tells us that if the book contains errors, they are the errors of men.

The harmony between the text of The Book of Mormon and the realities of life in ancient Italy should certainly give critics pause, as well. The class distinction between light-skinned patrician Nephites and dark-skinned menial Lamanites, and the sudden changes in skin tones when individuals associated with one group of the other, are exactly the kinds of details we would expect to find in a text written in the ancient Mediterranean world. These are also the kinds of historical details that an uneducated Yankee farm boy in New York could not possibly have guessed. As these evidences of an ancient Italian setting for The Book of Mormon continue to mount, those who would dispute its historicity would do well to consider how they intend to explain away all these bull's eyes.


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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:50 am 
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Here is my contribution to this marvelous work and a wonder...behold, the missing links! Romans in America! A new school of Mopology is born!

Roman archaeological evidences in the New World:

Image

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 63632.html

http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/artic ... anbust.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucson_artifacts

https://www.azpm.org/p/top-news/2013/3/ ... an-colony/

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:10 am 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucson_artifacts wrote:

"It comprised thirty-one lead objects consisting of crosses, swords, and religious/ceremonial paraphernalia, most of which contained Hebrew or Latin engraved inscriptions, pictures of temples, leaders' portraits, angels, and even what appears to be a diplodocus dinosaur."

The diplodocus dinosaur is the most convincing item.

Only Bigfoot could trump it.

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