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 Post subject: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:00 am 
Prophet

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:20 pm
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Location: Colorado
I started posting on these message boards around seven years ago. First on the 2think site, then ZLMB. I faded away after Z died and made another start here a little over a year ago. I first would like to apologize for the veneer of dishonesty. My moniker was a believing Mormon that I was 7 years ago. I was not attending when I first started posting here which I admitted to. My favorite poster of all time was Craig Criddle, before he started the Saplding research I had online discussions with him that were very enjoyable and enlightening. I sent Craig an email today and thought I would post the contents of it here as my last thread as mikwut. I quote myself:

Quote:
Craig,

I hope your well. I find some kind of solace in writing you a quick note. I and my wife have left the Mormon Church. I intend to stop posting under mikwut. Ironically, it was none of the normal doctrines like the Book of Abraham, polygamy, anachronisms, etc.. that turned my stubborn and sophisticated warpings inside out. Rather, my brother was falsely accused of molesting his children by his wife and his wfie's family during a very bitter divorce. Watching the process of this very Mormon family go through such disgusting mechanisms because of some unsavory things my brother did do, that would never be construed by well thinking people as to conclude such behavior would imply harming his young children, brought my mind to the reality that their religious bearings claim such a hold over their minds that they are without rational ability in many things. My brother's actions could never imply the dastardly implications of J.S. - why did he receive an unthinking pass from these sharks looking for blood?

I was then forced to consider my own father's deep CES influence on me. He beat the internet to my pyche and consciousness. I was already prepared for it when it came. But, after reflection on my apologetic position I determined I am no more Mormon than Christian non-Mormons, I am simply hanging onto to a socio-cultural comfort.

This is and has been extremely difficult, it is like waves of reality crashing over my once stable universe and soul - Craig, the whole cosmos is undone. My life is now viewed with regrets I couldn't have imagined several years ago. I sometimes question if I know who I am. The unnerving yet fascinating ability of our minds to view something as whole and later view it with complete disdain and silliness causes me tumultuous times. The regret and resentment I am keeping are what I wish to mature and move past. I have endured this well over a year now. Thank God for my wife.

My final question was Smith Alone or Spalding. Contrary to my posting I was rooting for Spalding but just can't get there, I think I have satisfied my quest on that matter and am at rest that either one leaves the same remainder for me.

I wanted to thank you for your always even keel and sincere approach to all things. I have never met you in person, but the meaning of friend has taken on a different tapestry for me and I thank you for your small part.

I wish you well and a good summer.


last regards, Mik

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All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell.
-Michael Polanyi

"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40


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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:15 am 
God
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Are you going to keep posting, but under your real name instead of as Mikwut?

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Hebraic structures in the Book of Mormon are like heart disease risk factors. If the major symptoms of a heart attack aren’t there, you don’t conclude a heart attack is happening just because a patient has a few risk factors. - California Kid


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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:23 am 
God
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So you "punish" the Church because of your brother's wife?
lol

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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:31 am 
God
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Glad to see you were half-heartedly playing devil's advocate. Actually, I enjoyed the sparring. Also teaches me the advantages of controlling one's temper. :)

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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:31 am 
Prophet

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:20 pm
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Location: Colorado
Hello Seth,

Quote:
Are you going to keep posting, but under your real name instead of as Mikwut?


I plan to you yes. I promised my wife a hiatus from the boards and work has piled up so it might be a few months.

Regards, mik

_________________
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell.
-Michael Polanyi

"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40


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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:37 am 
God
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Ever notice how the most level headed Mormons are the ones to leave the church?

I think it's only a matter of time before absman follows.

Sorry to hear about your brother, mik.

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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:39 am 
Prophet

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:20 pm
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Location: Colorado
Hello BCSpace,

Quote:
So you "punish" the Church because of your brother's wife?


No. I of course didn't detail every aspect of my present mind. My brother's situation allowed a catalyst for me to see those I thought I respected in a different light. It also allowed me to question those same dark parts of myself.

As I pointed out I was the son of a CES man. The church infuses the lives of all the members, but CES families live and breathe even a richer air of influence and significance on a daily basis. The church literally fed me, and instead of attending baseball games with my Dad I went to scripture chases. Breaking down that deep deep veneer was even more difficult for me, but my brother's situation allowed me to 'see' without my old eyes.

my regards BC, mikwut

_________________
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell.
-Michael Polanyi

"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40


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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:41 am 
Prophet

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:20 pm
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Location: Colorado
Schmoe,

Thanks, I appreciate it I really do. Hope your well.

mik

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All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell.
-Michael Polanyi

"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40


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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:10 pm 
God
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mikwut,

I can very much relate to the feelings you describe. You wonder who it is you really are, and you harbor some resentment and regret. That's a predictable response to losing one's worldview.

The good news is that the resentment and regret fade. Also, one great benefit of searching your soul to find out who you are is that you have a good chance of getting a real answer. Many of us built our notion of self around what other people told us we were and ought to be, but now you have the chance to decide what is at the core of your soul and conscience.

You'll be all right in the end. Best to you, and thank you for sharing your feelings here. I doubt anyone but bcspace will laugh at you.

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If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington


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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:25 pm 
God
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Quote:
No. I of course didn't detail every aspect of my present mind. My brother's situation allowed a catalyst for me to see those I thought I respected in a different light. It also allowed me to question those same dark parts of myself.

As I pointed out I was the son of a CES man. The church infuses the lives of all the members, but CES families live and breathe even a richer air of influence and significance on a daily basis. The church literally fed me, and instead of attending baseball games with my Dad I went to scripture chases. Breaking down that deep deep veneer was even more difficult for me, but my brother's situation allowed me to 'see' without my old eyes.


Ah! Over churched? I can feel that way sometimes. Fortunately I've been able to maintain balance in my life and realize, as does the Church, that life is to be enjoyed. But it's interesting how sin is always the catalyst to apostasy. In this case, an overreaction to the difference between one's own balance and another's has caused one to be susceptible.

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Conservatism is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action
He who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:35 pm 
God
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bcspace wrote:
Quote:
But it's interesting how sin is always the catalyst to apostasy.


What a pompous thing to say...

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eschew obfuscation

"I'll let you believers in on a little secret: not only is the LDS church not really true, it's obviously not true." -Sethbag


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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:53 pm 
God
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bcspace wrote:
Ah! Over churched? I can feel that way sometimes. Fortunately I've been able to maintain balance in my life and realize, as does the Church, that life is to be enjoyed. But it's interesting how sin is always the catalyst to apostasy. In this case, an overreaction to the difference between one's own balance and another's has caused one to be susceptible.


It's more interesting how derision, mocking, and smug self-righteousness seem to be some people's response to another's apostasy. I wonder if Nephi saw anyone by the tree of life pointing the finger of scorn and laughing at those who were lost.

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If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington


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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:57 pm 
Cupcake Queen
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Hi, Mikwut.

As I've always had an affinity for you, I am particularly touched by your post and wish you only the best. Your wife leaving the church along with you is a real blessing; I'm so glad you don't have the added strain of being the unbelieving spouse.

I'm sorry for what your brother and his family are going through and hope the best for them, as well.

I'm readying for the grand wedding of two Oklahoma University grads, both lawyers. I won't be the least bit surprised if they exit the sanctuary to Boomer Sooner--at the very least it will be played at the reception tonight. I'll be your proxy while I sing along. And while I have a drink or two, if you so wish. ;-)

Take care,

Kimberly Ann

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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:01 pm 
God
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Mik -

I'm always surprised to hear when a staunch defender of the faith "turns." I guess that, in defending the faith, folks may tend to exaggerate their clarity on troubling issues, if that makes sense. I guess I should be less surprised as time goes by and it repeatedly happens. I am beginning to suspect that Eric Hoffer was right in his suggestion that folks who tend to proselytize are really trying to shore up their own faith.

At any rate, aside from my surprise, I do want to offer you encouragement. Yes, times may be stressful and difficult at first. Losing mormonism really is like losing one's entire worldview, including one's own place and identity. But I know that I, personally, have been much happier and fulfilled out of the church than I was in the church - it just takes a period of grieving to get to the "other side."

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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:25 pm 
midnight rambler

Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 pm
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Location: St. Eligius
beefcalf wrote:
bcspace wrote:
But it's interesting how sin is always the catalyst to apostasy.


What a pompous thing to say...

but so necessary to keep clinging to the rod of irrationality.

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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:28 pm 
God

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Mik:

Now I feel guilty for pressing you to defend golden plates.

BTW... you do realize it is now only a matter of time before you will be proclaiming Spalding & Rigdon's role in the Book of Mormon from the rooftops. In the infamous words of Vader: It is your destiny.

LOL

I wish you all the best!

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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:43 pm 
God
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Some Schmo wrote:
I think it's only a matter of time before absman follows.
I'm a procrastinator at heart. I'm shooting for apostasy after an eternity. If that doesn't work, I'll go for a lifetime instead.

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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:51 pm 
God
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bcspace wrote:
But it's interesting how sin is always the catalyst to apostasy. In this case, an overreaction to the difference between one's own balance and another's has caused one to be susceptible.

I wouldn't be surprised is BCspace's accusatory and judgemental attitude exhibits, but not explicity expressed by Mik, "that deep deep veneer" that was broken down and that is part of the underlying disease that is the Mormon mindset, of which Mik is finally free of.

The shattering of the Mormon cosmology is very painful Mik, I can empathize with every word. Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:28 pm 
Prophet

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:20 pm
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Location: Colorado
Hello BCSpace,

Quote:
Ah! Over churched? I can feel that way sometimes. Fortunately I've been able to maintain balance in my life and realize, as does the Church, that life is to be enjoyed. But it's interesting how sin is always the catalyst to apostasy. In this case, an overreaction to the difference between one's own balance and another's has caused one to be susceptible.


No. I am not "overchurched" for the past ten years my caseload has always been bigger than my ability to take on too much outside of it. I accept your opinions BC and only wish you the very best, I am very pleased life has brought you such balance.

regards, mikwut

_________________
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell.
-Michael Polanyi

"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40


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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:33 pm 
God
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asbestosman wrote:
I'm a procrastinator at heart. I'm shooting for apostasy after an eternity. If that doesn't work, I'll go for a lifetime instead.

Well, I hope it's a fruit fly's lifetime.

*grin*

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"You get to have your own beliefs, and your own wishes, and dreams, and imaginations. What you don't get to have is your own reality." - Sethbag

"God works in mysterious, douchey ways." - Buffalo


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 Post subject: Re: A surprising but necessary post.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:36 pm 
Prophet

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 864
Location: Colorado
Hi KimberlyAnn,

Quote:
As I've always had an affinity for you, I am particularly touched by your post and wish you only the best. Your wife leaving the church along with you is a real blessing; I'm so glad you don't have the added strain of being the unbelieving spouse.

I'm sorry for what your brother and his family are going through and hope the best for them, as well.

I'm readying for the grand wedding of two Oklahoma University grads, both lawyers. I won't be the least bit surprised if they exit the sanctuary to Boomer Sooner--at the very least it will be played at the reception tonight. I'll be your proxy while I sing along. And while I have a drink or two, if you so wish. ;-)


Thank you so much for those kind words and well wishes.

Thank you for the proxy (I'm a Sooner born And a Sooner bred, And when I die I'll be Sooner dead. ) Those Sooner days were truly grand. Oklahoma might not have mountains, might not have ocean but it has stars, sunsets and clear thinking. I am glad its part of my blood. Enjoy the wedding!

regards, mikwut

_________________
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell.
-Michael Polanyi

"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40


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