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 Post subject: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:45 pm 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
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Amidst calls for compassion, one finds this:

Daniel Peterson wrote:
But I hope that compassion will also be felt, and prayers also offered, for those whose testimonies have been destroyed and whose families have been grievously wounded over the past several years — often, in my judgment and in that of many families and many who claim to have benefited, as a direct result of the activities of John Dehlin and (to a far lesser degree) of Kate Kelly. I know quite a few of them, and I’m aware of many more.


Though the apologists have denied that they are "gloating," one nonetheless sees material like this in the "Comments" section of that same blog entry:


Steve Smoot wrote:
The question I have for John Dehlin is, where are his GA friends that he's supposedly buddies with (you know, the ones who had you, Dan, kicked out the MI for daring to criticize him) when he needs them? Couldn't he just call up some of his apostle buddies and have all of this sorted out?
DCP wrote:
My bet is that, when the dust has finally settled, I'll have been excommunicated as the vicious piece of trash that I am while Brother Dehlin will have been elevated to the Mormon cardinalate.


It's interesting: they denied up and down that Dehlin had anything whatsoever to do with the "ouster," and yet, now that this is happening, they are returning to harp on that exact point.

Interestingly, in the "Comments" on another entry, a poster named "Mat" asks to be shown what sounds like a very interesting document:

Mat wrote:
Dan, why don't you publish the letter you wrote about JD, unedited? The one that was part of the exiting from the Maxwell Institute?


I'm not entirely sure what he's referring to, but I did hear rumors about a "memo" that was circulated amongst members of "classic-FARMS" (if memory serves, it was described as an "8-page memo," which was, presumably, put together to help the attack on John Dehlin).

DCP responds that "There was never any "letter." There was an article, and you can reach it through the link that I provided." Maybe not a "letter," but there certain were rumors that there was *some* document floating around.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:56 pm 
God
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I loved this little moment.

Quote:
I’m fully aware, yes, of the danger of “deifying” Church leaders, and I myself have thought that we sometimes go too far in putting them on pedestals. But I’ve found myself thinking, as I’ve read recent expressions of disdain for them, of a statement made by Harold B. Lee to the students of Brigham Young University back in September 1973:
“The measure of your true conversion,” he said, “and whether or not you hold fast to those ideals is whether or not you are so living that you see the power of God resting upon the leaders of this Church and that testimony goes down into your heart like fire.”


The measure of your true conversion is how you view the church leadership? That basically just affirms what critics are constantly saying about the authoritarian nature of the church.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:09 pm 
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Translates into:
Angry ant can't help but to bite when opportunity arises..

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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:11 pm 
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Darth J quote from another thread:

Quote:
Yes, but for John Dehlin, the self-evident historicity of the Book of Mormon would remain unassailable.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:26 pm 
2nd Quorum of Seventy
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It's interesting how the expert in quote mining fails to post this from Dan's blog:

Dan wrote:
John Dehlin and I have crossed paths from time to time. Among other things, The Interpreter Foundation, which I chair, posted Dr. Greg Smith’s two essays about Brother Dehlin’s public activities and comments, and Brother Dehlin has claimed credit for my ouster from the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship, whose “new course,” since then, he has publicly praised. However, despite our deep and fundamental disagreements, our few personal encounters have always been polite, even cordial. I wish him no ill and have never sought to do him harm.



Nor do I take any pleasure at all in potential Church discipline with regard to anybody, including Kate Kelly and John Dehlin. Contrary to the claims of some, I haven’t been celebrating this news with anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:31 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:15 pm 
God
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So DCP calls Dehlin a family destroyer and in the next breath wishes him no ill will and hopes he does not get church discipline?

Wtf?

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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:19 pm 
God
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cwald wrote:
So DCP calls Dehlin a family destroyer and in the next breath wishes him no ill will and hopes he does not get church discipline?

Wtf?


DCP suffers from a fragmented personality. One of his identities is an Nigerian Prince. You may have gotten an email from him.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:38 pm 
God
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cwald wrote:
So DCP calls Dehlin a family destroyer and in the next breath wishes him no ill will and hopes he does not get church discipline?

Wtf?

Many of us have mixed feelings on various topics. We might resent someone that played an incidental part in destroying our Empire and yet at the same time realize that these angry feeling are not how we want to be defined. It was wrong for Mr. Dehlin to claim to be the undoing of the Maxwell Battalion, who in truth was about to be fired upon, when the Mormon Marines landed and disarmed the troops who were suffering from apologetic intoxication.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:11 pm 
God
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Doctor Scratch wrote:
Amidst calls for compassion, one finds this:

Daniel Peterson wrote:
But I hope that compassion will also be felt, and prayers also offered, for those whose testimonies have been destroyed and whose families have been grievously wounded over the past several years — often, in my judgment and in that of many families and many who claim to have benefited, as a direct result of the activities of John Dehlin and (to a far lesser degree) of Kate Kelly. I know quite a few of them, and I’m aware of many more.


Very interesting post Dr. Scratch.

Obviously DCP is lying again. Nobody has lost their testimony because of John Dehlin. Nobody believes this. This claim is outrageously stupid, even for DCP.

Dehlin has helped numerous people, while DCP continues to harm the Church, ruin testimonies and leave a path of destruction in his massive, gluttonous wake. I'm embarrassed that he professes to be a member of my Church.

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"I was a criminal for quite some time before I joined the church. I have done forgeries, but in the end, forgers are still humans, and I am a student of human behavior." Maklelan


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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:14 pm 
God
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I will give DCP a $1,000.00 cashier check if he can give us the name of one verifiable person who lost their testimony because of John Dehlin.

I'm calling bull-hockey on DCP's claim. It's unfortunate, but DCP has a long and storied history of lying, deceiving and falsely accusing individuals. This is just par for the course for DCP.

Put up or shut up DCP.

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"I was a criminal for quite some time before I joined the church. I have done forgeries, but in the end, forgers are still humans, and I am a student of human behavior." Maklelan


Last edited by Everybody Wang Chung on Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:05 pm 
God
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Daniel Peterson wrote:
But I hope that compassion will also be felt, and prayers also offered, for those whose testimonies have been destroyed and whose families have been grievously wounded over the past several years — often, in my judgment and in that of many families and many who claim to have benefited, as a direct result of the activities of John Dehlin and (to a far lesser degree) of Kate Kelly. I know quite a few of them, and I’m aware of many more.
(my emphasis)

name one, Peterson.

or quit making cowardly, anonymous claims.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:02 am 
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[MODERATOR NOTE: Posts previously in this thread that dealt with the interpersonal conflict between Doctor Scratch and Jesse Pinkman have been split into the Telestial Forum.]

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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:11 am 
God

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Man you people [personal attack deleted]......

I've seen many ex-mo's say how much they loved John's work, and how it helped them OUT of the Church.
Of course, to be fair some his work has helped some stay "in"..... But, doing some good doesn't change all the bad a person does.

BTW, all one has to do is check the COMMENTS section of all his various videos for many examples of this and what DCP also said.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:16 am 
God
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ldsfaqs wrote:
But, doing some good doesn't change all the bad a person does.


How does that statement apply to your activities during your self proclaimed anti-mormon era?
Have you 'balanced the books' by doing more than 'some good' or do you still reside on the naughty step?

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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:16 am 
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Blaming Dehlin for "destroying families" is the equivalent of blaming a newspaper reporter for the war he/she is reporting. These issues exist, whether or not Dehlin comments on them. What destroys families is the reality that these issues exist, and are problematic, and cause a loss of faith. It's unfortunate when a loss of faith destroys families. I suspect when that occurs, there was little more holding the marriage together than that common faith.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:21 am 
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In what sense at all would Dehlin be destroying families? Because he offered religious views that persuaded people and caused inter-family conflict? To blame him for ruining families on that basis is downright insulting and, ironically, is much more the responsibility of a Church that inculcates a faith that can cause families to tear apart on the basis of religious disagreement.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:28 am 
God
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EAllusion wrote:
In what sense at all would Dehlin be destroying families? Because he offered religious views that persuaded people and caused inter-family conflict? To blame him for ruining families on that basis is downright insulting and, ironically, is much more the responsibility of a Church that inculcates a faith that can cause families to tear apart on the basis of religious disagreement.


On the basis that Dehlin has destroyed families, the Missionary programme of the Church therefore destroys families.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:46 am 
God
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Bazooka wrote:
On the basis that Dehlin has destroyed families, the Missionary programme of the Church therefore destroys families.


I agree, and Mormons usually love to tell stories of converts who joined the church even though it jeopardized their family/friend relationships.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:14 am 
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EAllusion wrote:
In what sense at all would Dehlin be destroying families? Because he offered religious views that persuaded people and caused inter-family conflict? To blame him for ruining families on that basis is downright insulting and, ironically, is much more the responsibility of a Church that inculcates a faith that can cause families to tear apart on the basis of religious disagreement.

Blaming Dehlin for inter-family conflict is like blaming the child in The Emperor's New Clothes for embarrassing the Emperor. Anytime someone leaves a closely-knit religious organization there will be family related conflict. That doesn't mean they should never leave. And, God forbid Mormons would actually apply this reasoning to their own conversation efforts, which often tear up families.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP: "Dehlin is a Family Destroyer"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:28 am 
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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Very interesting post Dr. Scratch.

Obviously DCP is lying again. Nobody has lost their testimony because of John Dehlin. Nobody believes this. This claim is outrageously stupid, even for DCP.

Dehlin has helped numerous people, while DCP continues to harm the Church, ruin testimonies and leave a path of destruction in his massive, gluttonous wake. I'm embarrassed that he professes to be a member of my Church.

Just wait. DCP will soon be ending his posts over on MDDB with the tag line-" leaving paths of destruction in massive, gluttonous wakes."

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