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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:54 pm 
God
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why me wrote:
I was referring to LDS posters hanging out on critic boards without being run off by a hostile mob. You see, Scratch, on critic boards there is a hiding going on. And yes, on RFM, the posters are hiding. I am not even talking about debate but I am talking about dialog. Many of those posters have illusions about the LDS church that a LDS person can discuss from a different angle, if they were allowed to post on such boards. Likewise for other critic boards where banning, of the positive about the LDS church, is the rule.

It is not socalled TBMs in hiding but countermos who have dug a hole deep and round.


Again, why me, you apparently don't understand the purpose of RfM. "Countermos" are posting in a lot of places, including MADB (unless, of course, they're rude people like me). I post on RfM occasionally, and I post here. Does that constitute a deep and round hole?

Why on earth would you even want to bring debate to RfM? That would be like insisting that the tobacco lobby be represented on a forum dedicated to quitting smoking.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:13 pm 
Master Mahan

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why me wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:

You claim that you "can assure you that we would be there." Oh, really? All of you are welcome here, and yet how many have showed up? I think that your claim is idle puffery and chest pounding of the variety that is de rigueur on the fittingly named MADboard. Further, a site such as RfM makes no claims whatsoever to being a "debate" board, which stands in stark contrast to MAD.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that posters on MBs such as RfM are "hiding" from TBMs. I would not argue with you on that point at all.

I was referring to LDS posters hanging out on critic boards without being run off by a hostile mob. You see, Scratch, on critic boards there is a hiding going on. And yes, on RFM, the posters are hiding. I am not even talking about debate but I am talking about dialog. Many of those posters have illusions about the LDS church that a LDS person can discuss from a different angle, if they were allowed to post on such boards. Likewise for other critic boards where banning, of the positive about the LDS church, is the rule.

It is not socalled TBMs in hiding but countermos who have dug a hole deep and round.


Where are the "countermos" hiding, Why Me? Or did you mean to say, "exmos"? There is a difference, after all.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:16 pm 
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Why Me,

Care to explain why believers abandoned ZLMB? In case you didn't read other posts about it, ZLMB was started by a believer who, along with other believers, were disgusted with the biased moderation at the Tanner's old board, and started ZLMB with the deliberate intent to provide neutral, unbiased moderation. Specific rules were shared and the moderating team was comprised of believers and nonbelievers.

Believers couldn't hack the environment. Various reasons have been given in the past, but most of them have a "cause/effect" reversal. For example, it moves slowly (only happened after believers began to abandon it), topics of substance were fewer (only happened after the exodus), slow moderator response (again, after the exodus), etc.

One possible answer that some have given is that believers prefer more conversations with other theists, rather than agnostic/atheists, which constituted a bulk of the critics at Z. I understand LDS prefer to discuss issues with people who share a belief in the Bible so they can use arguments such as "prophets in the Bible did bad stuff, too", or "prophets in the Bible didn't prophesy accurately, too". To flee the entire board is preference for the openly biased moderation of FAIR/MAD is its own form of "hiding".

I've stated this many times, but I never get bored of repeating it: the irony is that the believers who fled ZLMB for FAIR ended up creating the mirror image of the board they judged so harshly in the first place: the Tanner's openly biased board.

Life is so much better than fiction.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:25 pm 
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why me wrote:
It is not socalled TBMs in hiding but countermos who have dug a hole deep and round.


Have you heard of the nauvoo board?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:41 pm 
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wenglund wrote:
Runtu wrote:
Of course, the alternative is to go to another board and cluck self-righteously about how awful this place is.


And here I thought that was the primary function of this board in relation to MA&D. I doubt there is any comparison in proportion of threads and posts here that are "cluckingly" devoted to MA&D, as there are there devoted to this board. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I suspect they would devote much more time to us if they were only allowed to do so. Here is a real life example: Do you not thing the folks in the former Soviet Union would have liked discussing the Radio Free Europe broadcasts openly? Of course they would, if only they had been allowed the opportunity.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:15 pm 
God
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liz3564 wrote:
(Moderator Note) Alter Idem and any others who are concerned about language:

Dr. Shades and I do our best to comb the threads in the Terrestrial and Celestial Forums. However, if you notice what you believe to be a language violation, please PM one of us, and we will have a look at it.

As a rule, "F*** and "Sh** are not allowed in the Terrestrial forum. However, at times, when someone is passionate about a topic, it is easy for one of these words to slip into the post for dramatic effect. In those cases, Shades and I normally opt to simply edit the language rather than deleting the entire post or splitting the topic.



Liz,

You don't need to comb the threads, just use the search feature. I tried that last night and there were a few "f" words lingering here in the Terrestrial but everything else is in the Telestial so far as I could tell. So, you guys are doing a pretty good job of keeping things "clean" around here.

Bi,
Jersey Girl
;-)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:18 pm 
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Alter Idem wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
Alter Idem wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
Can I ask a question here? I looked over the thread and I see two places where Brian used variations of the word "f***" and one "Goddamn".

Doesn't the "Goddamn" bother you?

Jersey Girl


"Da*m" doesn't bother me but yes, "G**" used as a profanity does. To be honest though, when I got to the first "F"bomb he dropped, I didn't read much else he wrote. I'm not sure just what is allowed in Terrestrial but I was pretty sure the F word was not, therefore that was what I commented on.


Well, you would have had to wade through the "Goddamn" to get to the first "F word". Just curious. Thanks.

Jersey Girl


You say you are just curious, but I have to wonder if you are suggesting I'm oversensitive to hearing the F word while I couldn't care less about someone taking God's name in vain? Contrary to what some may believe, I do live in the real word. I hear G** as a profanity all the time, It's used on a regular basis and seems nobody cares(except a few of us)--If I'd taken note of it, I would not have commented because I assumed it was allowed. And Dr. Shades has confirmed twice that my assumption was correct. He also confirmed through his recent comment that if I'd complained about the G**da** it would have been ignored because that is, as I assumed, allowed.


Holy Cats,

You have no need to be so defensive with me. It is just as I said, I was curious about why you mentioned one and not the other.

Jersey Girl

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:23 pm 
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moksha wrote:
wenglund wrote:
Runtu wrote:
Of course, the alternative is to go to another board and cluck self-righteously about how awful this place is.


And here I thought that was the primary function of this board in relation to MA&D. I doubt there is any comparison in proportion of threads and posts here that are "cluckingly" devoted to MA&D, as there are there devoted to this board. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


I suspect they would devote much more time to us if they were only allowed to do so. Here is a real life example: Do you not thing the folks in the former Soviet Union would have liked discussing the Radio Free Europe broadcasts openly? Of course they would, if only they had been allowed the opportunity.


That is certainly one self-complimentary way of explaining the disparity.

However, I tend to think it has more to do with the lack of significant personalities and meaningful and enlightening conversation over here. I mean, I would think it would get quite boring after a while for MA&D participants to keep saying: "Gee...look what those guys as MD are saying about us!"

And, if they were all that interested in the participants and topics here, I would think they would engage them here rather than through the MA&D board. But they don't--and I think that is, in part, because there are participants here that they find repelling (perhjaps myself included), and would just as soon not associate with, and may even be glad to be away from, let alone talk about them over there, or at least not too often.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:39 pm 
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Quote:
That is certainly one self-complimentary way of explaining the disparity.

However, I tend to think it has more to do with the lack of significant personalities and meaningful and enlightening conversation over here. I mean, I would think it would get quite boring after a while for MA&D participants to keep saying: "Gee...look what those guys as MD are saying about us!"

And, if they were all that interested in the participants and topics here, I would think they would engage them here rather than through the MA&D board. But they don't--and I think that is, in part, because there are participants here that they find repelling (perhjaps myself included), and would just as soon not associate with, and may even be glad to be away from, let alone talk about them over there, or at least not too often.


Of course your explanation was quite objective and far less self-serving. ;)

So, Wade, ZLMB certainly had plenty of interesting personalities and worthwhile conversation, and yet the believers still chose to flee to the safety of FAIR.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:16 pm 
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beastie wrote:
Quote:
That is certainly one self-complimentary way of explaining the disparity.

However, I tend to think it has more to do with the lack of significant personalities and meaningful and enlightening conversation over here. I mean, I would think it would get quite boring after a while for MA&D participants to keep saying: "Gee...look what those guys as MD are saying about us!"

And, if they were all that interested in the participants and topics here, I would think they would engage them here rather than through the MA&D board. But they don't--and I think that is, in part, because there are participants here that they find repelling (perhjaps myself included), and would just as soon not associate with, and may even be glad to be away from, let alone talk about them over there, or at least not too often.


Of course your explanation was quite objective and far less self-serving. ;)


I am not sure about objective, but I don't see how what I said could be viewed as self-serving since I am far more identified as a participant here than there, and I also included myself as a reason those at MA&D may not wish to participate here. But, I am sure you will find a way to view it differently. ;-)

Quote:
So, Wade, ZLMB certainly had plenty of interesting personalities and worthwhile conversation, and yet the believers still chose to flee to the safety of FAIR.


Again, I saw the migration differently. I saw it as various interesting personalities and worthwile conversations fleeing the ZLMB board along with other believers and non-believers for less repelling and seemingly more efficacious cyber-marketplaces of ideas. And, as may be expected, some of the repelling and counter-efficacious elements later followed the migration, but for various reasons (likely having something to do with their repulsion and counter-efficacy, not the least of which entails a seeming inability to adequately recognize and change their repelling behavior, but dysfunctionally shifting the blame for their alienation entirely to others) they ended up here and at other boards of obsessive discontent, and have been reduced to conversing remotely about the objects of their obsession. This, in many ways, applies as much to me as others here. ;-(

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:25 pm 
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I'm curious about the "repelling" aspects of ZLMB. What were they?

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Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:17 pm 
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beastie wrote:
I'm curious about the "repelling" aspects of ZLMB. What were they?


I wonder if those of us who have been banned from MADB qualify as the "repelling" aspects. Just wondering.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:31 pm 
Wade wrote:
they ended up here and at other boards of obsessive discontent, and have been reduced to conversing remotely about the objects of their obsession.


Hmmm....I was banned from FAIR, and I don't feel like I'm "reduced" to conversing here. Does anyone who was banned from FAIR/MAD feel that way?

As far as FAIR/MAD being an obsession....For me, I can honestly say it's not. At least not anymore. There was a period where I was angry and hurt because of how I was treated. But, to be honest, it's been about two weeks since I even bothered to read MAD.

I do find Scrath's findings amusing, and sometimes I'll pop over and see what he's talking about. Most of the time, I just go by what I read here.

If Juliann apologized tomorrow, and asked me to return to MAD and be a Mod again, I would accept the apology, but respectfully decline the offer.

I don't like the politics that occurs on the board. I never did. I thought I could make a difference by being in a leadership role there. I was obviously wrong.

The people here are much more "real", down to earth, and actually have a sense of humor! I wouldn't trade the friends I have made here for anything. :) (and, yes, Wade, that includes you! LOL)


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