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 Post subject: What modern beliefs will be merely "opinion" in 10
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:39 am 
God
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On another thread, Seven asked an interesting question, and since it's friday, I thought it would be a fun topic to discuss. Since it turns out much of what past prophets taught was merely their opinion, it stands to reason that much of what the modern GAs teach is also just their opinion. So which modern LDS teachings will future Mormon apologists claim was just opinion?

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Seven:

It will be fascinating to see in 100 years which teachings by the current Prophets are labeled as "opinion."


Harmony:

Most if not all of them. The current prophets' offerings of earrings, tattoos, and teased hair will likely not be at all applicable to life 100 yrs from now. Heck, they're not applicable to life now. Life left them behind 50 yrs ago. They're stuck in the 50's, and seem to think life is a 2 dimensional takeoff of Leave It to Beaver.


I agree with Harmony that the earring and tattoo ban, which TBMs took as gospel truths direct from God for about 3 years, will become merely opinion as soon as Gordon B. Hinckley dies.

Women will eventually be allowed to hold the priesthood, probably not for another 50 years or so, but when they do the apologists will claim that there never was an official ban on women holding the priesthood. It was merely the opinions of past prophets and it was never doctrine.

The Book of Abraham will quietly disappear from future editions of the Pearl of Great Price. When asked about it, the GAs will claim that Joseph Smith never intended it to be canonized and the First Presidency canonized it during a time of great persecution and their judgment was effected. It was never intended to be canonized, and if the saints had not been so harshly persecuted in the late 1800s, it never would have been.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:46 am 
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I predict that nothing published by the Church today as scripture or doctrine will be considered opinion 100 years from now.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:51 am 
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bcspace wrote:
I predict that nothing published by the Church today as scripture or doctrine will be considered opinion 100 years from now.


I predict that your prediction will be incorrect.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:04 pm 
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I predict that all of the teachings with respect to Noah's Ark will be softened to the point where it will be taught as allegory at best, and "we just don't know what actually happened" at worst. But it will stop being taught as fact. And with it, the teaching that with the Flood the earth was baptised will simply disappear from any official Church publications, and eventually be forgotten.

I predict that the Adam and Eve story will be similarly revisited. I predict that the church will essentially stop teaching that nothing died on earth before Adam and Eve fell, and the whole rest of the story will turn into "we just don't know what really happened" and be left ambiguous.

I don't know if I predict this, but I have a feeling the church might expand the "no rated R movies" thing to include PG-13. This is kind of a WAG, but hey, it'll be fun to see if it happens.

I think we'll see church meetings drop to 2 hours from 3 on Sundays. One reason is just that it's so damned boring now. And with the highly sanitized and scripted lesson manuals, there just isn't anything being taught anymore that people haven't heard a zillion times before. It's booooooooring. It will affect attendance as people just can't make themselves go anymore. Or at least you'll see more people taking off after sacrament meeting. by the way, it's already 2.5 hours in my ward, and has been since I moved to Arizona a couple years ago in a different stake, too. Ostensibly it's because we're sharing this building with enough other wards that they don't have time for a full 3 hour block, but I'd have a hard time seeing them go back to 3 hours even if more buildings alleviate some of the pressure. Chopping another half hour won't seem like that big a deal at some point.

I think I can predict that in another 10 or 20 years, after Boyd K. Packer is dead and gone, and with him the rest of the Old Guard who served with Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, and the others, I think you'll see the church quietly just stop asking about masturbation, and essentially go "don't ask, don't tell" with respect to that "second only to murder" practice engaged in by 100% of men and a substantial number of women.


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 Post subject: Re: What modern beliefs will be merely "opinion" i
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:06 pm 
Valiant A

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SatanWasSetUp wrote:
So which modern LDS teachings will future Mormon apologists claim was just opinion?



The whole Adam & Eve in Missouri crap will soon be denied.


Chris <><


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:29 pm 
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Sethbag wrote:
by the way, it's already 2.5 hours in my ward, and has been since I moved to Arizona a couple years ago in a different stake, too. Ostensibly it's because we're sharing this building with enough other wards that they don't have time for a full 3 hour block, but I'd have a hard time seeing them go back to 3 hours even if more buildings alleviate some of the pressure. Chopping another half hour won't seem like that big a deal at some point.


Interesting. I'm surprised your stake presidency hasn't had the hammer drop on them yet. Our ward was 2.5 hours long for over a year, and then one sunday (about 6 months ago), the bishop stood up in sac. meeting and read a letter from the first presidency, saying something like "church meetings are to be 3 hours long, there are to be no exceptions to this." I can't remember the wording exactly, but it was pretty blunt and to the point.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:49 pm 
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Here is one: That Mitt Romney would make a good junior Senator from Utah. 10 years from now, folks will have found out that this is not the case.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:50 pm 
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bcspace wrote:
I predict that nothing published by the Church today as scripture or doctrine will be considered opinion 100 years from now.


The TBMs in 1907 thought the same thing.

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"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:52 pm 
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bcspace wrote:
I predict that nothing published by the Church today as scripture or doctrine will be considered opinion 100 years from now.


I disagree. It has happened before with the Doctrine and Covenants, Book of Mormon....
If you go on FAIR, you will find articles on the "opinion" regarding section 132 being synon. with plural marriage. Now, it was just "opinion" that the Prophets taught this revelation was only for polygamy. (it's clear as day that Celestial marriage was revealed only for the purpose of polygamy)

I wouldn't be surprised to see additional "revelations" on marriage, in addition to 132. There is an open door for it at the last verse.

The Book of Mormon will not be historical, but still inspired.

Washings and annointings have changed significantly over the years. I predict members will remain in their full temple attire for the ritual.

The endowment will be shortened. Women will no longer have to "submit to man" and will be equal with their spouse in submitting to God.

Book of Abraham will quietly dissappear and most members won't notice.

Physical appearance will be less emphasized. Multiple earings, piercings, tatoos, will all be opinion and a product of the times.

Apologetics will be part of future church teachings and materials.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:40 pm 
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I agree that the Brethren will eventually declare the BofM to be something other than a legitimate historical account. I have noticed subtle things indicating that this is so (stuff which parallels, in certain ways, the events that led up to the lifting of the priesthood ban). Additionally, there is a lot of pressure being put on the Church thanks to DNA evidence, lack of findings in MesoAmerica, and so forth. I really think it is only a matter of time before the BofM's historicity gets totally abandoned.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:40 pm 
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I wonder if they'll keep coming after nonmembers and inactives so hard in the future. Will there come a point where members start to simply rebel and say, "No, I will not do activation and missionary work." I know a lot of otherwise stalwart tithe paying members who really don't like this. I wonder how hard the church will push them on this.

I've debated on just not telling anyone where I move to the next time I move. I wonder how long it would take them to find me. Any guesses?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:01 am 
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The LDS church on this issue faces the same problem as the Catholics and JWs. When they finally back down and abandon some of these ideas as wrong, they're left to explain the embarrassing fact that other Christian groups tried to tell them for decades that they were wrong, but were dismissed because the LDS church is supposedly led by prophets.

There's no win-win situation here for the LDS church.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:35 am 
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bcspace wrote:
I predict that nothing published by the Church today as scripture or doctrine will be considered opinion 100 years from now.


I predict that nailing down what LDS scripture/doctrine is will continue to be more difficult than nailing jello to the wall, so you'll always have plenty of room for rationalization on this issue.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:16 am 
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Lucretia MacEvil wrote:
I predict that nailing down what LDS scripture/doctrine is will continue to be more difficult than nailing jello to the wall, so you'll always have plenty of room for rationalization on this issue.


Abolutely right. What I've seen among apologists is the uncanny ability to take even clear evidence against the church and turn it into some kind of support. For example, we know that the Book of Abraham facsimiles have nothing to do with Joseph's "translation" of them. We know what they mean, and we have his direct translations. They don't match even remotely. Robert Ritner has shown in the Journal of Near Eastern Studies how shoddy and dishonest the apologists' scholarship has been. And yet we have people saying even today that Joseph's translation was "spot on."

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