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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Shinster wrote:
consiglieri,

Part 3 was my favorite part of the 3-part series. I do have to challenge your assertion that Eyring is making a "new definition" since this was actually being use by the church over 10 years ago (from page 76):

"But it’s not percentages that are important. “The numbers don’t tell the real story,” stated Bruce Olsen, managing director of the Church Public Affairs Department, in an April 2005 news release. “The real measure of Latter-day Saints is the depth of their faith and how it changes people’s lives.” And lives are changing for the better all over the world."

https://media.ldscdn.org/pdf/magazines/ ... gn-eng.pdf


Nice catch, Shinster!

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

You are right. It looks Like President Eyring was not the first to try this spin.

I kind of thought that was a bit creative and original for President Eyring, but I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I am looking for some kind of reiteration of this idea in General Conference.

As well as a talk written by the PR department for a GA that will not mention Joseph Bishop's name but talk about how even Jesus chose a Judas, and how this doesn't impact their spirit of discernment at all, because you know, people have their free agency and all . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:47 pm 
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RockSlider wrote:
I tried to complement Bill in the comments section of his Bishop, we quit podcast. I do wonder why he rejected it?

Anyway, I would still love to see you capture your thoughts in a RFM podcast as well.

Episode 3 was the perfect addition to this series! Thanks Consig.

Thanks, RS!

I wouldn't take it personal about Bill. He has a new website up and it still has some kinks in it. I do not think for a second he would knowingly reject your comment--especially a compliment!

I will let him know, though.

Also, I am working hard this week on a special episode about Joseph Bishop.

The angle I am going to be hitting is the church cover up.

Who would think the church would cover up something as serious as sexual abuse?

I mean, it's not like they lie about little things like church growth or anything . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:48 pm 
Son of Perdition
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I enjoyed episode 3.

Way to slam dog faced Holland -- that mean and angry son of ____. I'm so glad I left the church and bailed off the cult ship. My life is much better not having anything to do with elder Holland and having to take his rotten counsel. Screw you, Holland, you dirty taffy pulling dog faced SOB!

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:49 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
I enjoyed episode 3.

Way to slam dog faced Holland -- that mean and angry son of ____. I'm so glad I left the church and bailed off the cult ship. My life is much better not having anything to do with elder Holland and having to take his rotten counsel. Screw you, Holland, you dirty taffy pulling dog faced SOB!

:lol:


I was really happy I had an episode where I could finally use that audio clip of him from Dallas and then again from Tempe.

Especially the one from Tempe.

That is audio that simply cannot be played enough!

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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:50 pm 
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RockSlider wrote:

I tried to complement Bill in the comments section of his Bishop, we quit podcast. I do wonder why he rejected it?

Anyway, I would still love to see you capture your thoughts in a RFM podcast as well.

Episode 3 was the perfect addition to this series! Thanks Consig.


Just saw that your comment is up!

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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:53 pm 
Son of Perdition
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consiglieri wrote:
Also, I am working hard this week on a special episode about Joseph Bishop.


The man must be totally broken up by now. I feel kind of sorry for him.

You might mention also that the church needs to stop asking youth if they masturbate during personal interviews with the bishop. I would love to see the church sued for this. I'm sure they have caused all kinds of harm and damage in telling kids that masturbation is evil.

Sue the Mormon church!

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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:56 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
The man must be totally broken up by now. I feel kind of sorry for him.

You might mention also that the church needs to stop asking youth if they masturbate during personal interviews with the bishop. I would love to see the church sued for this. I'm sure they have caused all kinds of harm and damage in telling kids that masturbation is evil.

Sue the Mormon church!

And I think it well to remember that absolutely NONE of this would have happened if not for MormonLeaks publishing that recorded interview just one week ago today!

If they had not done that, this whole thing would have been swept under the rug with a check and a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

As has doubtless happened so many times before . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:35 pm 
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It's like some of the Apostles have been infected with the spirit of apologetics. Making up falsehoods and juggling numbers will ultimately come back to bite them.

Lying for the Lord it does not make us pious, it makes us liars. I wish we members had some way to halt this practice of deception.

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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:08 pm 
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moksha wrote:
. I wish we members had some way to halt this practice of deception.

You are right!

Lying for the Lord is worse than other types of lying because you are lying for a Being who is on record as not really being down with liars.

A way to halt this practice of deception?

I think the only way is to continuously call church leaders out when they do it.

That's where Radio Free Mormon comes in!

:cool:

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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:23 pm 
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consiglieri wrote:

That's where Radio Free Mormon comes in!


:cool:


And your future excommunication.

:biggrin:

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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:39 am 
Savior (mortal ministry)

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consiglieri wrote:
moksha wrote:
. I wish we members had some way to halt this practice of deception.

You are right!

Lying for the Lord is worse than other types of lying because you are lying for a Being who is on record as not really being down with liars.

A way to halt this practice of deception?

I think the only way is to continuously call church leaders out when they do it.

That's where Radio Free Mormon comes in!

:cool:


Concerning the lies you mention, the lying for the Lord is worse because it's treating people as if they don't count at all. The rant that someone caught from Holland (and I think you're right to link this to Jeremy, something that didn't occur to me) seems to expose the disrespect he feels for members generally.


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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:51 am 
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Hey consig, have you seen this?

"All Church unit statistical information has been removed at the request of the Church Legal Department. "

https://ldschurchtemples.org/statistics/units/


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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:59 am 
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Meadowchik wrote:
Hey consig, have you seen this?

"All Church unit statistical information has been removed at the request of the Church Legal Department. "

https://ldschurchtemples.org/statistics/units/


Wow, just wow. I get the impression the wagon train is circling and getting ready for an all out war before it finally gets its saintly ass thoroughly kicked. The legal department is effectively running the church and Nelson is the chief acting puppet.

It sounds like a great purge is coming.

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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:38 pm 
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This church statistics blog used to be open and readable to all. Now it is restricted. It listed wards and branches that were created or discontinued around the world. There was another site for US branches and wards.

http://ldsunitgrowth.blogspot.com/

Here is what I see when I try to go to the site:

Quote:
This blog is open to invited readers only
http://ldsunitgrowth.blogspot.com/
It doesn't look like you have been invited to read this blog. If you think this is a mistake, you might want to contact the blog author and request an invitation.


Here is what was there until recently:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180313182800/http://ldsunitgrowth.blogspot.com/

It looks like the church doesn't want anyone displaying which units have shut down around the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:30 am 
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It'll be interesting to see them put a stop to stats piece by piece, if that's their intention. First stop announcing and conference. next, stop members and others from posting some information. Soon it'll probably all be locked and hidden. I honestly can't imagine stopping it completely, but they only allow a very high level view of the numbers at this point anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:25 pm 
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consiglieri wrote:

I was really happy I had an episode where I could finally use that audio clip of him from Dallas and then again from Tempe.

Especially the one from Tempe.

That is audio that simply cannot be played enough!


He sounds angry and unhinged. Kind of scary too.


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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:13 pm 
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I think it was Sister Zina Macbeth who penned the legal directive from Kirton McConkie in concise terms, "Out, damn statistics! Out!"

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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:20 am 
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Consig, just finished this yesterday. Thanks for another great topic and presentation! You really rounded out that circle with the Daniel prophecy.


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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:28 am 
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sunstoned wrote:
consiglieri wrote:

I was really happy I had an episode where I could finally use that audio clip of him from Dallas and then again from Tempe.

Especially the one from Tempe.

That is audio that simply cannot be played enough!


He sounds angry and unhinged. Kind of scary too.


It's interesting that he admits that what he says doesn't sound apostolic. He is right on that point, it doesn't because it isn't. His statement is wholly without self-conscientiousness and integrity. Of course people have convictions and leave. Of course people care that "contemporary life matters" and that can be a part of leaving. How can he pretend that a famous maritime rule has any weight in spiritual matters?

Jeff is adopting a hodgepodge of disjointed, contradictory ideas to hold his loyalties together and to compel others to stay loyal to the church. How can this not be obvious to him?


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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:42 pm 
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Statistics show that the church has never been so strong.

Image

Elder Cook the Books

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 Post subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics (RFM)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:42 pm 
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Elder Holland wrote:
I'm so furious with people that leave this church!


:evil:

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