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 Post subject: Re: The Ghost of Homophobia Past
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:23 pm 
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consiglieri wrote:
Thanks so much, Craig and Paul!

And don't worry about skewing the downloads by multiple listenings.

So long as they are in my favor!


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 Post subject: Re: The Ghost of Homophobia Past
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:37 am 
Son of Perdition
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consiglieri wrote:
Shulem wrote:
And on that note, I'd love to ask President Kimball what he thinks the penalty should be for those who violate the law and engage in illegal homosexual acts.

1. How much jail time for each act?

2. What about repeat offenders, such as myself? Life in prison?

Let Kimball rot in his grave, that bastard. I need to visit his grave just so I can spit on it and curse him. That's now on my list of things to do. I wonder if anyone has ever urinated on his grave?

:twisted:


In defense of President Kimball (as a man, not a prophet), there were laws in many (most?) states against homosexuality. I think they were sometimes called sodomy laws.

I seem to remember in my Constitutional Law class back in 1986 reading about how one of these went to the U.S. Supreme Court and was found to be constitutional. Was the name of the case Hardwick? Kind of hard to forget that name.

Here it is!

Bowers v. Hardwick, 478 U.S. 186 (1986), is a United States Supreme Court decision, overturned in 2003, that upheld, in a 5–4 ruling, the constitutionality of a Georgia sodomy law criminalizing oral and anal sex in private between consenting adults, in this case with respect to homosexual sodomy, though the law did not differentiate between homosexual sodomy and heterosexual sodomy.

What I am getting at is that Spencer Kimball was raised in a culture (Mormon and non-Mormon) that viewed sodomy as criminal, and grew up in a country where laws were on the books criminalizing sodomy.

Even when he wrote this comment in the late 1970s, sodomy laws were still considered constitutional in the U.S.

In the context of the times, it is probably not that remarkable statement.

Unless you throw into the equation he is supposed to be a prophet of God.

That makes it a tad more troublesome, I agree.


I hear what you're saying, RFM and it's clear that Mormon prophets are slow to move with the times and recognize that that some of their beliefs are just plain wrong.

Of course, we all know that the church does not give apologies. The church doesn't hold itself accountable for making mistakes and isn't about to apologize to the countless people it has offended or even endangered.

The very idea of jailing homosexuals for having consensual sex is simply beyond my ability to grasp. It's ruthless, cruel, and pure evil. To think that the legal court systems that used to be run by antigay religious zealots makes me cringe. The Christians were guilty of shaming gays and threatening to charge them with criminal acts for simply engaging in consensual loving behavior.

I think you can see why I often get so damn mad on this board and lash out. It irks me more than you know! So, I, vent. It's therapeutic in a way. Really though, how would you like to be charged with a crime and locked up for loving someone and having consensual sex in the privacy of your own bed? How would that make you feel? You wouldn't like it, I know.

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 Post subject: Re: The Ghost of Homophobia Past
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:47 am 
God
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Shulem wrote:
I think you can see why I often get so damn mad on this board and lash out. It irks me more than you know! So, I, vent. It's therapeutic in a way. Really though, how would you like to be charged with a crime and locked up for loving someone and having consensual sex in the privacy of your own bed? How would that make you feel? You wouldn't like it, I know.


No, I wouldn't like it, Shulem.

You are, of course, right about that.

And I do understand where you are coming from. At least to the extent I am able to put myself in your shoes.

In fact, I have talked to others who are surprised at the vitriol you sometimes display on this board.

When I tell them a bit about your background with the church, though, they immediately seem to understand a bit better themselves and soften toward you as a result.

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 Post subject: Re: The Ghost of Homophobia Past
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:53 am 
Son of Perdition
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consiglieri wrote:
In fact, I have talked to others who are surprised at the vitriol you sometimes display on this board.

When I tell them a bit about your background with the church, though, they immediately seem to understand a bit better themselves and soften toward you as a result.


I appreciate that. And yes, it was difficult having to live in the closet and deny who I really was all those years. It's not as simple as just being part of the cult and being lied to and paying tithes and doing all those commandments but it includes denying who you are and not letting you express your real self. So, in that sense, it's harder on gays living in Mormonism and after they get out it's easy to understand that they are quite pissed.

It's also alarming that so many Mormon gay teens are killing themselves over this whole damn mess. It irks me.

Anyway . . . .

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 Post subject: Re: The Ghost of Homophobia Past
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:54 pm 
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Elder FAT CAT Rasband gives a presentation to church educators about the teen suicide crisis. Nothing said about gay teens and their sufferings forced upon them by the church.

No accountability from the church which is responsible for the persecution of gay teens. Shame on the church! Shame on Nelson!

Elder Rasband Speaks to Church Educators about Worldwide Crisis of Teen Suicide

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 Post subject: Re: The Ghost of Homophobia Past
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:15 pm 
High Priest

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:13 pm
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consiglieri wrote:
In defense of President Kimball (as a man, not a prophet), there were laws in many (most?) states against homosexuality. I think they were sometimes called sodomy laws.

I seem to remember in my Constitutional Law class back in 1986 reading about how one of these went to the U.S. Supreme Court and was found to be constitutional. Was the name of the case Hardwick? Kind of hard to forget that name.

Here it is!

Bowers v. Hardwick, 478 U.S. 186 (1986), is a United States Supreme Court decision, overturned in 2003, that upheld, in a 5–4 ruling, the constitutionality of a Georgia sodomy law criminalizing oral and anal sex in private between consenting adults, in this case with respect to homosexual sodomy, though the law did not differentiate between homosexual sodomy and heterosexual sodomy.

What I am getting at is that Spencer Kimball was raised in a culture (Mormon and non-Mormon) that viewed sodomy as criminal, and grew up in a country where laws were on the books criminalizing sodomy.

Even when he wrote this comment in the late 1970s, sodomy laws were still considered constitutional in the U.S.

In the context of the times, it is probably not that remarkable statement.

Unless you throw into the equation he is supposed to be a prophet of God.

That makes it a tad more troublesome, I agree.


He was a product of his time. But you'd think that a church claiming a direct line of communication with God would at least once be ahead of the times.


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 Post subject: Re: The Ghost of Homophobia Past
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:08 pm 
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toon wrote:
He was a product of his time. But you'd think that a church claiming a direct line of communication with God would at least once be ahead of the times.


Exactly. The apologetic excuse of men being products of their own time is just another way to say that they don't really have prophetic insight wherein the wisdom of the future is seen with an eye of enlightenment.

Kimball sure was a product of his times. So also is Nelson who is living in a fantasy. They are both fools and the oncoming Mormon bus will run them both over in time.

When Kimball said that people aren't born gay it only goes to show he didn't know what he was talking about. The church didn't know what it's talking about and to this day it still doesn't!

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 Post subject: Re: The Ghost of Homophobia Past
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:18 pm 
Son of Perdition
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Spencer W. Kimball wrote:
There is a falsehood that some are born with an attraction to their own kind, with nothing they can do about it. They are just ‘that way' and can only yield to those desires. That is a malicious and destructive lie. While it is a convincing idea to some, it is of the devil.


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 Post subject: Re: The Ghost of Homophobia Past
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:23 pm 
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I know beyond a shadow of doubt -- absolutely, positively, with sheer knowledge pure and true, that Spencer W Kimball was a false prophet.

It has nothing to do with faith or hope or any of those kinds of matters. It's simply a matter of pure knowledge in knowing this man was an utter fraud and he didn't know what he was talking about.

Screw you, Kimball.

:evil:

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