It is currently Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:42 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 480 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 19, 20, 21, 22, 23  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:03 am 
Apostle

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:00 pm
Posts: 760
Dr. Shades wrote:
Meadowchik wrote:
That's gross, Shulem. Can you maybe not blame victims please?

Hi Meadowchik,

I'm pretty sure this is Shulem's way of showing Niadna how she came across in her original post of, "These are the names I'm going to call you, and these are the reasons why you will have caused me to call you them."


And that was me asking him not to do that.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:21 am 
2nd Counselor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:38 pm
Posts: 414
I think people were a little hard on Niadna, pouncing on innocent bits of miscommunication, for which both sides were at fault, as if they were major intellectual failings on Niadna's part.

To pick the first concrete example that I see scrolling back, grindael mentioned that Smith pled guilty to assaulting this one guy, and then added that Smith also assaulted this other guy, Calvin Stoddard. There followed a long quoted excerpt from Smith's trial for the Stoddard assault, and a final sentence suggesting that the assault might have led to Stoddard's early death.

So okay, what grindael actually said was that the assault proven in court was on the first guy, not Stoddard. And the fact that Smith was indeed convicted (on a guilty plea) of a felony was absolutely a cogent and relevant point for grindael to make at that stage in the discussion.

Most of grindael's post, though, was about the Stoddard case—for which Smith was acquitted. The acquittal made the Stoddard case a poor example for the point grindael was making. If you already believe (as I do) that Joseph Smith was a nasty guy, then it's natural to want to tell poor Stoddard's story after all these decades. Quoting at length about a charge on which Smith was acquitted is a confusing way to discuss Smith's criminal record with a Mormon, however.

Niadna jumped on grindael's apparent overlooking of the fact clearly stated in his own quote, that Smith was acquitted for Stoddard. Yes, Niadna could ideally have said something more like, "I see that Smith was acquitted of assaulting Stoddard, but I take your point that he pled guilty to assaulting [the other guy]." Instead Niadna focused on the longish quote about Stoddard and ignored the other guy. That was not perfect close reading on Niadna's part. It was hardly mindless negligence, either, though. grindael's post was confusing, giving most of its space to a red herring case that didn't really support grindael's point. If we're going to expect Niadna to see past that kind of distraction, then it seems to me we could equally well expect grindael not to post so confusingly. Bringing up Stoddard at that point was bad argumentative writing.

I am NOT blaming grindael for that. Nobody here is getting paid for this. We can all do our best to be clear, but nobody has time to re-edit each post to academic journal standards. Sheesh. Sometimes we're all going to express some things awkwardly. It will be noticed, for example, that I have not taken the time to go back and look up the name of the guy to whose assault Smith pled guilty. I'm sorry for that, but not much. Life is short.

My point is that since we should indeed cut people slack for not expressing themselves in the most perfectly transparent way all the time, we should also cut people slack for not following every argument perfectly. In this case I don't think it was fair to snap at Niadna for failure to contextualize. A better response, to my mind, would have been something more like, "Yeah, the Stoddard story was kind of me getting carried away with historical outrage. My real point was the other guy—over him, Smith pled guilty."

I'm sorry to single out grindael like this. It's not really appropriate; grindael's posts actually stand out for how substantial they are and I'm always interested to read them. Having pled for slack over poor communication in general, I'll have to try to claim the principle now myself. There was surely a better way for me to make this point, without unfairly spotlighting grindael; besides being more polite, the better way would have made the point more clearly without the distraction of personal criticism. I failed to find that better way in the time that I had, but the point still seemed worth making, even if I could only make it badly, so I hit Submit. For that, I plead guilty to bad argumentative writing myself, in this post. Sorry, grindael.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:00 am 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 6619
Quote:
I'm sorry to single out grindael like this. It's not really appropriate; grindael's posts actually stand out for how substantial they are and I'm always interested to read them. Having pled for slack over poor communication in general, I'll have to try to claim the principle now myself. There was surely a better way for me to make this point, without unfairly spotlighting grindael; besides being more polite, the better way would have made the point more clearly without the distraction of personal criticism. I failed to find that better way in the time that I had, but the point still seemed worth making, even if I could only make it badly, so I hit Submit. For that, I plead guilty to bad argumentative writing myself, in this post. Sorry, grindael.

It is an interesting point, but in 'spotlighting grindael,' and his post about Stoddard, you actually did make your point very badly, :lol: as in, you are wrong to point to grindael's post as an example of what you are arguing.

A bit further back in the conversation, naidna argues this:
Quote:
...and narrowing down the conversation without bringing in examples that are pertinent is called contextomy.

While your point is a good one when discussing things that are far apart in time or type, like, oh, pointing out that it might be possible to excuse the twin tower bombings because of the crusades, talking about one press destruction in the context of another one that happened a decade previously in an ongoing atmosphere of antagonism ... would be 'context.'


In response, fencesitter asked this:
Quote:
But let's say you have a point that the depredations over the years against the Mormons have to be included when talking about Nauvoo and failure to do so is a sign of hypocrisy

This arose because naidna made an argument, in the midst of all this 'context,' that because Joseph Smith wasn't "convicted" of anything, he didn't "need to be pardoned" for anything.

Talk about lack of context. :rolleyes:

Whhich brings us to grindael's post you are referring to. Grindael brings in two examples of the same behavior, one that resulted in a conviction, and one that did not, and shows quite convincingly that the behavior itself is more relevant and provides more context than just arguing that the isolated vagaries and inconsistencies of a legal system prove anything.
Quote:
Quoting at length about a charge on which Smith was acquitted is a confusing way to discuss Smith's criminal record with a Mormon, however.
Not if you were following the discussion.
Quote:
Instead Niadna focused on the longish quote about Stoddard and ignored the other guy.
Exactly grindael's point. Naidna argues 'context' when it suits her argument, but she ignores the 'context' when it doesn't. Grindael made his point perfectly.

I will grant you, however, that it was a long, long thread to keep up with, which would go a long way toward explaining why a single post might look confusing.

Quote:
we should also cut people slack for not following every argument perfectly.
:lol: Indubitibly. May the odds ever be in our favor.


Last edited by Lemmie on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:57 am 
Regional Representative

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:21 pm
Posts: 655
Physics Guy wrote:
I think people were a little hard on Niadna, pouncing on innocent bits of miscommunication, for which both sides were at fault, as if they were major intellectual failings on Niadna's part.



I agree. Thanks for saying as much.

I would hope we'd have a more inviting place for anyone to participate in. I"m not saying Niadna was innocent in her behavior, but I think overall she was treated poorly. I don't blame her for leaving, if she did. It's too bad too, because some lively back and forths coming from opposite positions can be interesting and helpful.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:08 am 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 6619
Quote:
but I think overall she was treated poorly.

If by overall, you mean by post count, I would agree. Shulem is the Energizer bunny crossed with that cat from Pet Sematary when he smells blood in the water. (And I mean that as a compliment Shulem! You are always a fun read. )

But if you mean a majority of the posters in this thread treated her poorly or even the majority of posters treated her poorly in at least one post, then I would disagree strongly.

But I will stop putting words in your mouth. What did you mean by overall?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:12 am 
Regional Representative

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:21 pm
Posts: 655
Lemmie wrote:
Quote:
but I think overall she was treated poorly.

If by overall, you mean by post count, I would agree. Shulem is the Energizer bunny crossed with that cat from Pet Sematary when he smells blood in the water. (And I mean that as a compliment Shulem! You are always a fun read. )

But if you mean a majority of the posters in this thread treated her poorly or even the majority of posters treated her poorly in at least one post, then I would disagree strongly.

But I will stop putting words in your mouth. What did you mean by overall?


I would say in the sum. If you take the whole of the thread and try to determine what was being discussed and how it was discussed, I think she was treated poorly. That surely does not mean the majority of posters treated her poorly. I think she was new and felt like she was not welcome, as a result. I'm not saying she did herself any favors with the way she participated though.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:19 am 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 6619
Quote:
I think she was new and felt like she was not welcome, as a result. I'm not saying she did herself any favors with the way she participated though.

Agreed, but I don't think newness had anything to do with it. I took a look at her posting style over at CARM when she mentioned a thread in that forum; her style is exactly the same there as it was here.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:29 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:50 pm
Posts: 1348
Stem wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
But I will stop putting words in your mouth. What did you mean by overall?
I would say in the sum. If you take the whole of the thread and try to determine what was being discussed and how it was discussed, I think she was treated poorly. That surely does not mean the majority of posters treated her poorly. I think she was new and felt like she was not welcome, as a result. I'm not saying she did herself any favors with the way she participated though.
I'll say I've been conflicted about this thread and have purposefully stayed out of it because of this. I think there is more than enough share of problem to go around. It wasn't just Shulem's standard aggression (still love ya Paul), several other posters chimed in with the usual "troll" bit and that can begin to feel like a chorus of unwelcoming voices.

The flip side to that is of course that Niadna wanted to make a controversial first post, she also spent time engaging those more hostile posters as opposed to ignoring them and focusing her energies on those that she shares common ground with (I'm fairly certain that all of Jersey Girl's and Moksha's posts went unanswered). She set out, by her own admission, to make an inflammatory post but seemed surprised when there was push back. I have a hard time sympathizing with that position.

This is a board that, because of the free speech avenue it wants to be, doesn't really do "nice". It is a lot of what you make of it though. If you choose to focus on, engage with, and antagonize posters that are being "uncivil" than it should be no surprise when the experience is uncivil.

Edited to appease the Mountain Man

_________________
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens


Last edited by Xenophon on Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:32 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 15346
Stem wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
If by overall, you mean by post count, I would agree. Shulem is the Energizer bunny crossed with that cat from Pet Sematary when he smells blood in the water. (And I mean that as a compliment Shulem! You are always a fun read. )

But if you mean a majority of the posters in this thread treated her poorly or even the majority of posters treated her poorly in at least one post, then I would disagree strongly.

But I will stop putting words in your mouth. What did you mean by overall?


I would say in the sum. If you take the whole of the thread and try to determine what was being discussed and how it was discussed, I think she was treated poorly. That surely does not mean the majority of posters treated her poorly. I think she was new and felt like she was not welcome, as a result. I'm not saying she did herself any favors with the way she participated though.


You mean she picked a fight and others took her up on it? And then she played the victim and now you making her a martyr? You mean she generalized individual posters into a group, couldn't keep track of individual themes within the thread, declared herself bullied, and you're reinforcing the Mormon victimology routine?

Puh-lease...

- Doc


Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:37 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 15346
Also, why is Niadna's username so confusing for the people here? I've never seen so many misspellings of one username before.

Nee-ahd-nah

or

Nye-ahd-nah

Just... How?

- Doc


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:39 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:50 pm
Posts: 1348
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Also, why is Niadna's username so confusing for the people here? I've never seen so many misspellings of one username before.
I'll be honest, I was just too lazy to go back and look it up when I was writing my post. :twisted:

_________________
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:19 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 18824
Location: Koloburbia
Physics Guy wrote:
For that, I plead guilty to bad argumentative writing myself, in this post.

Don't worry. There is no need for any of us to make an airtight case. It's not like we are Smac arguing for a death penalty before a jury of disgruntled MD&D moderators.

_________________
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:23 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 18824
Location: Koloburbia
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Nee-ahd-nah or Nye-ahd-nah

Just... How?

- Doc

I would have added in the missing vowels and pronounced it Nee-ah-deena.

Wonder how Ludwigm would have said that name? I think he was around before the great vowel shift.

_________________
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:38 am 
Regional Representative

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:21 pm
Posts: 655
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:

You mean she picked a fight and others took her up on it? And then she played the victim and now you making her a martyr? You mean she generalized individual posters into a group, couldn't keep track of individual themes within the thread, declared herself a bullied, and you're reinforcing the Mormon victimology routine?

Puh-lease...

- Doc


I'm not sure I"m going to go back and reevaluate. I didn't see her picking a fight, per se. The first page or two seemed to be going just fine. I don't know I know exactly when things seemed to go south, and I grant it could have been sparked by her (as I said she didn't seem to be doing herself any favors).

In the end, she felt unwelcome. that seemed clear to me. That's too bad. I don't know what all she would have brougth to the table, if anything. But I like to hear other voices. I'd rather make room for others and encourage them.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:16 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 6817
Location: On walkabout
Stem wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:

You mean she picked a fight and others took her up on it? And then she played the victim and now you making her a martyr? You mean she generalized individual posters into a group, couldn't keep track of individual themes within the thread, declared herself a bullied, and you're reinforcing the Mormon victimology routine?

Puh-lease...

- Doc


I'm not sure I"m going to go back and reevaluate. I didn't see her picking a fight, per se. The first page or two seemed to be going just fine. I don't know I know exactly when things seemed to go south, and I grant it could have been sparked by her (as I said she didn't seem to be doing herself any favors).

In the end, she felt unwelcome. that seemed clear to me. That's too bad. I don't know what all she would have brougth to the table, if anything. But I like to hear other voices. I'd rather make room for others and encourage them.


I think it’s too bad also. I’m not sure the current board culture is amenable to making room for others if those others are believing LDS folks.

_________________
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:17 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 15346
She's 100% welcome to post here, and I'm sure 99% of MormonDiscussions.com posters would agree. Of course I'd love to see more Mormon posters, but it's been shown time and again most are a bit touchy and really don't do well in a forum that isn't moderated in their favor. Afaik, the Celestial is the perfect place for them to participate, but at the end of the day they don't want that.

- Doc


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:31 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 6489
Niadna
Image

Baby,

Come back and grade judge those who participated in your thread so everyone can know what kind of person they are. Get your pen out, girlfriend, and start grading:

A = very nice critic
B = good critic
C = just a another critic
D = anti-Mormon
F = terrible anti-Momron

Insert your grade in the box provided by each name: [A] person

[] Fence Sitter
[] Res Ipsa
[] huckelberry
[] Johannes
[] LittleNipper
[] I have a question
[] moksha
[] Always Changing
[] Gadianton
[] Polygamy-Porter
[] Themis
[] Physics Guy
[] Stem
[] candygal
[] karl61
[] Doctor CamNC4Me
[] Quasimodo
[] grindael
[] Shulem
[] RockSlider
[] Water Dog
[] Maksutov
[] Dr. Shades
[] Lemmie
[] Jersey Girl
[] Ceeboo
[] cwald
[] schreech
[] Kishkumen
[] DrW
[] Meadowchik
[] Xenophon

_________________
Not Like Real Egyptian


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:36 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:49 am
Posts: 7979
Location: Somewhere between bemused and curious.
Res Ipsa wrote:

I think it’s too bad also. I’m not sure the current board culture is amenable to making room for others if those others are believing LDS folks.


Cinepro has posted here for years without complaining about the culture here. I don't think it is a "culture" here that is the problem. Without moderation, the Farms defenses fall apart pretty quickly. We have a lot of non LDS posters here who hold religious beliefs. I don't see them complaining about a culture here that is not amenable to them expressing their own religious beliefs. Though part of that may be the fact that a lot of us are a lot better versed in the problems of Mormonism then we are of other religions coupled with this being a forum on Mormonism.

We've seen people like Niadna show up here before and we will again. If they had good arguments to present in defense of Mormonsim or if they were good at presenting an argument (she was neither) , there would be a lot more of them here. She didn't run into a recovery from Mormonism forum, she ran into a "Mormonism Unveiled forum."

_________________
"The lives we lead now are not dress rehearsals, they are the only performance we have. Therefore what matters is what we have here, the people we know and and love and the good we can do for the world"
Sean Carroll


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:01 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 6817
Location: On walkabout
Fence Sitter wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:

I think it’s too bad also. I’m not sure the current board culture is amenable to making room for others if those others are believing LDS folks.


Cinepro has posted here for years without complaining about the culture here. I don't think it is a "culture" here that is the problem. Without moderation, the Farms defenses fall apart pretty quickly. We have a lot of non LDS posters here who hold religious beliefs. I don't see them complaining about a culture here that is not amenable to them expressing their own religious beliefs. Though part of that may be the fact that a lot of us are a lot better versed in the problems of Mormonism then we are of other religions coupled with this being a forum on Mormonism.

We've seen people like Niadna show up here before and we will again. If they had good arguments to present in defense of Mormonsim or if they were good at presenting an argument (she was neither) , there would be a lot more of them here. She didn't run into a recovery from Mormonism forum, she ran into a "Mormonism Unveiled forum."


That’s true as to Cinepro, and I’d be interested to hear what he thinks about the culture here. I do think the culture here is influenced by the good old days, when defenders and critics went at each other with hammer and tongs, often displaying antagonism and outright hostility. I think some of those attitudes get triggered when an LDS person references an apologetic argument that we all know is BS. IMO, the conversation here took a turn toward the hostile after the first claim that she was just reciting arguments from FAIR.

If we actually want believing LDS folks to come here and engage, then I would expect some critical self reflection after this thread. I see much more defense of our “tribe” than anything else.

_________________
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:24 pm 
Apostle
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:10 am
Posts: 777
Stem wrote:
I'm not sure I"m going to go back and reevaluate. I didn't see her picking a fight, per se. The first page or two seemed to be going just fine. I don't know I know exactly when things seemed to go south, and I grant it could have been sparked by her (as I said she didn't seem to be doing herself any favors).

In the end, she felt unwelcome. that seemed clear to me. That's too bad. I don't know what all she would have brougth to the table, if anything. But I like to hear other voices. I'd rather make room for others and encourage them.

My first impression of Niadna was that she's just TBM immature and figured it would go this way. Was a waste of time to try engaging. Anybody who shows up here has to go through the initiation ritual. I went through it, and I've seen many others go through it. If you can't handle it, you don't belong here. Even after things settle down, there is a certain intensity that prevails. That's just the board culture. If you can't handle the initiation, you simply won't be able to hold your own in discussions long-term. Particularly if you're in the minority view on a subject. Making matters worse she was bringing it on herself by going on the offensive the way she did. I still am perplexed about her rantings against Christians/Evangelicals. Not sure what this had to do with anything. I'm not sure what the point of this thread even was.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: What is an anti-Mormon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:43 pm 
Regional Representative

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:21 pm
Posts: 655
Water Dog wrote:
My first impression of Niadna was that she's just TBM immature and figured it would go this way. Was a waste of time to try engaging. Anybody who shows up here has to go through the initiation ritual. I went through it, and I've seen many others go through it. If you can't handle it, you don't belong here. Even after things settle down, there is a certain intensity that prevails. That's just the board culture. If you can't handle the initiation, you simply won't be able to hold your own in discussions long-term. Particularly if you're in the minority view on a subject. Making matters worse she was bringing it on herself by going on the offensive the way she did. I still am perplexed about her rantings against Christians/Evangelicals. Not sure what this had to do with anything. I'm not sure what the point of this thread even was.


I'm not sure what the point of this thread was either...and I believe I told her as much. I agree with that.

My Father-in-law, trying to take a shot at wife and I, talked about his neighbor who easily got offended again and decided not to come to Church until at some point they run out of money and come begging...or something. I tire of hearing of the impression so many Mormons have that people leave because they get offended. At some point you have to ask, "wait..if the Jacobson's left because they were offended...if the Donald's left because they were offended...if the Simpkins left because they were offended...maybe at some point you have to ask, well why were they all offended? Was there a better way to treat them?"

This feels similar to me. Active LDS come and go here, because it's not a very tolerant place when it comes to LDS folks. But ultimately if no one else wants others here, fine. I'm happy enough with what I get out of here for now. I would like to see more LDS feeling welcomed and feeling encouraged. But I realize that may just be me...so it's cool.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 480 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 19, 20, 21, 22, 23  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], huckelberry and 31 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group