It is currently Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:28 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Religion is of little significance
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:18 am 
Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:21 pm
Posts: 233
I sit in Church often hearing something like this: "If you go to Church, get committed to God, you become better. You learn to be in the world but not of it." Religion, Mormonism, in particular, is said, then to make people better. That should mean, then, that Brother Johnson ought to be a more loving, giving person than Jake down the other side of the street. What happens when Jake is as loving and giving, or moreso, than Brother Johnson? Is religion the failure? Is Brother Johnson's faith the problem?

It seems to me religion benefits from the notion that we simply can't see enough in a person to know if he/she is good or not. We have our pesky problem of not being in a good position to actually judge another.

It also could be that Brother Johnson and Jake appear to love and give to others but each really just wants adoration for himself, or wants to groom others, if you will. Life can get ugly. It's less about the ascent of religion that is the reliever of all our problems, it seems to me. It's the heart of a person. If God, religion matters very little.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Religion is of little significance
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:53 pm 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:00 pm
Posts: 17849
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
Organized religion is a collective effort at aspiring to better things. It is not the only way to aspire, but it is one. I think it a decent option, so long as it is tempered by sound thinking.

Hub in Secondhand Lions wrote:
Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. That people are basically good; that honor, courage, and virtue mean everything; that power and money, money and power mean nothing; that good always triumphs over evil; and I want you to remember this, that love... true love never dies. You remember that, boy. You remember that. Doesn't matter if it's true or not. You see, a man should believe in those things, because those are the things worth believing in."


https://youtu.be/y1-KbmIagFw?t=3m30s


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Religion is of little significance
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:46 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:19 pm
Posts: 9395
Location: Multiverse
I see much of it as identity. If people didn't think of themselves as as a member of a religion, they would assume other tribal affiliations. What happens in the Scandinavian countries where most of the citizens are agnostics? How do they see themselves? What is the source of their values and identity?

I'm out of Mormon stock so I am Mormon in some way that is involuntary. But I see myself as a humanist with libertarian leanings, a limited accommodationist agnostic. My American identity, my valuing of the Constitution and Enlightenment ideals, is stronger than my identification with a movement founded by Joseph Smith, Jr. That's hard to fit into a soundbite, on a bumper sticker or a tattoo. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Religion is of little significance
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:45 pm 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:00 pm
Posts: 17849
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
Maksutov wrote:
I'm out of Mormon stock so I am Mormon in some way that is involuntary. But I see myself as a humanist with libertarian leanings, a limited accommodationist agnostic. My American identity, my valuing of the Constitution and Enlightenment ideals, is stronger than my identification with a movement founded by Joseph Smith, Jr. That's hard to fit into a soundbite, on a bumper sticker or a tattoo. :wink:


You’re a treasure, Mak.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Religion is of little significance
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:04 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 1813
Stem wrote:
I sit in Church often hearing something like this: "If you go to Church, get committed to God, you become better. You learn to be in the world but not of it." Religion, Mormonism, in particular, is said, then to make people better. That should mean, then, that Brother Johnson ought to be a more loving, giving person than Jake down the other side of the street. What happens when Jake is as loving and giving, or moreso, than Brother Johnson? Is religion the failure? Is Brother Johnson's faith the problem?

It seems to me religion benefits from the notion that we simply can't see enough in a person to know if he/she is good or not. We have our pesky problem of not being in a good position to actually judge another.

It also could be that Brother Johnson and Jake appear to love and give to others but each really just wants adoration for himself, or wants to groom others, if you will. Life can get ugly. It's less about the ascent of religion that is the reliever of all our problems, it seems to me. It's the heart of a person. If God, religion matters very little.



Stem, this post is very timely, I've been listening to the new MS podcast interview with Tova Mirvis where in she talks about how her Jewish faith taught her she was Good and how following the orthodox rules were about being good. About how going to church, following the rules, being committed to what God wants you to do instead of following your authentic self you can become better. But its a false narrative promoted by high commitment religions that actually takes a toll on the individual once they realize that its a false narrative that there are good people every were without religion...religion doesn't make you good...you can be good without religion...

_________________
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace

"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Religion is of little significance
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:11 pm 
Apostle

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:51 pm
Posts: 772
As an amateur historian, I think the history of religion is fascinating. What makes people believe in God is as interesting a question as where dells we come from, why are we hear, and where are we going?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Religion is of little significance
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:18 pm 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:00 pm
Posts: 17849
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
What so many of us forget is that belief in gods was once the default position. The question, for thousands of years, was not whether there was a god or gods, but what to do with the gods. It was once radical to say that the gods existed but had nothing to do with human affairs. So is it so odd that people would believe, after all these thousands of years, that knowing how to deal with the gods is necessary? It is instead most novel to think that there is nothing to be concerned about.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Religion is of little significance
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:38 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:19 pm
Posts: 9395
Location: Multiverse
Kishkumen wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
I'm out of Mormon stock so I am Mormon in some way that is involuntary. But I see myself as a humanist with libertarian leanings, a limited accommodationist agnostic. My American identity, my valuing of the Constitution and Enlightenment ideals, is stronger than my identification with a movement founded by Joseph Smith, Jr. That's hard to fit into a soundbite, on a bumper sticker or a tattoo. :wink:


You’re a treasure, Mak.


Likewise, Reverend. :smile:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Religion is of little significance
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:36 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:04 am
Posts: 3544
Stem wrote:
I sit in Church often hearing something like this: "If you go to Church, get committed to God, you become better. You learn to be in the world but not of it." Religion, Mormonism, in particular, is said, then to make people better. That should mean, then, that Brother Johnson ought to be a more loving, giving person than Jake down the other side of the street. What happens when Jake is as loving and giving, or moreso, than Brother Johnson? Is religion the failure? Is Brother Johnson's faith the problem?

It seems to me religion benefits from the notion that we simply can't see enough in a person to know if he/she is good or not. We have our pesky problem of not being in a good position to actually judge another.

It also could be that Brother Johnson and Jake appear to love and give to others but each really just wants adoration for himself, or wants to groom others, if you will. Life can get ugly. It's less about the ascent of religion that is the reliever of all our problems, it seems to me. It's the heart of a person. If God, religion matters very little.


I think as a sidewards glance a very interesting read for its caustic yet logical and spot on analysis is PZ Myers book "The Happy Atheist" which I am almost through with now. It's a smallish book, but packs a gigantic whallop of logic and critical analysis to the woo woo that relgion offers. I was stunned at it's relevance to absolutely right now in the world.

_________________
"Isn't it ironic that a church that depends so much on a fictional book being actual history has done so much to revise, cover up and ignore real history?" - Fence Sitter

"Science believes in accountability here and now. Religion believes in it in the hereafter." - Maksutov


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Religion is of little significance
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:03 pm 
The Outcast

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:52 am
Posts: 17063
Stem,

What you are looking for is inside of you. Think of the scene in Forest Gump where he starts off running as a boy with the leg braces on, but keeps running as they fall off. Organized religion are those leg braces that may at one time have been useful, but are no longer. You are who you are. Mankind is what it is. Religion served a very important purpose at one time, most recently as a tool of socialization in the American west.

Like the caterpillar that becomes a butterfly, you no longer need to crawl on the ground of organized religion. Spread your wings and flitter through the air of life. It will elevate you, as much as you set yourself free from all constructs.

sock puppet


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Religion is of little significance
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:07 pm 
The Outcast

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:52 am
Posts: 17063
Maksutov wrote:
I see much of it as identity. If people didn't think of themselves as as a member of a religion, they would assume other tribal affiliations. * * *

I'm out of Mormon stock so I am Mormon in some way that is involuntary. But I see myself as a humanist with libertarian leanings, a limited accommodationist agnostic. * * *

It's hard to imagine that one can arrive anywhere else after years of introspection and critical thinking.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Religion is of little significance
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:42 pm 
Holy Ghost
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:48 pm
Posts: 918
sock puppet wrote:
Stem,

What you are looking for is inside of you. Think of the scene in Forest Gump where he starts off running as a boy with the leg braces on, but keeps running as they fall off. Organized religion are those leg braces that may at one time have been useful, but are no longer. You are who you are. Mankind is what it is. Religion served a very important purpose at one time, most recently as a tool of socialization in the American west.

Like the caterpillar that becomes a butterfly, you no longer need to crawl on the ground of organized religion. Spread your wings and flitter through the air of life. It will elevate you, as much as you set yourself free from all constructs.

sock puppet


This reminds me of Poelman's talk so long ago about how the church is a vehicle to perfect the saints and as one progresses, one needs the church vehicle less and less.

The nanny corporate church squelched this idea as it would put the nanny corporate church out of a job eventually.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Religion is of little significance
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:10 am 
God

Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 1420
Well these are legit comments -organized religion will not get you eternal life. It took me till my 45th year to recognize that ! When i began to search the Gospels and looking for the words, ok maybe alleged words, of
Jesus, i found the answer to my quest in John's Gospel- John 3: 16 is the core of the true gospel, organized religion need not apply!
In the gospel of john Jesus asks /teaches/exhorts us to believe in Him over 100 times- he is making a key point. the second most used word by Jesus in that gospel is love. Believe in me and you will have eternal life then go out and live a life guided by love for God and neighbor-organized religion not needed.

for me i came into a personal relationship with Jesus as my lord and savior- i know catcall me down;but it is my story and it happened to me like Paul. Changed everything- my psyche was transformed and of course i did not know that was going to happen; but it did-only the lord can do that.

life after that experience has been unbelievably joyous even with trials and difficult life situations!

try it- find the "sinners prayer" humble yourself as best you can- say it and see what happens.

organized religion need not apply- your mileage may vary!

just sayin'

k


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Religion is of little significance
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:11 am 
God

Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 1420
Well these are legit comments -organized religion will not get you eternal life. It took me till my 45th year to recognize that ! When i began to search the Gospels and looking for the words, ok maybe alleged words, of
Jesus, i found the answer to my quest in John's Gospel- John 3: 16 is the core of the true gospel, organized religion need not apply!
In the gospel of john Jesus asks /teaches/exhorts us to believe in Him over 100 times- he is making a key point. the second most used word by Jesus in that gospel is love. Believe in me and you will have eternal life then go out and live a life guided by love for God and neighbor-organized religion not needed.

for me i came into a personal relationship with Jesus as my lord and savior- i know catcall me down;but it is my story and it happened to me like Paul. Changed everything- my psyche was transformed and of course i did not know that was going to happen; but it did-only the lord can do that.

life after that experience has been unbelievably joyous even with trials and difficult life situations!

try it- find the "sinners prayer" humble yourself as best you can- say it and see what happens.

organized religion need not apply- your mileage may vary!

just sayin'

k


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DrW, Google [Bot] and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group