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 Post subject: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:37 pm 
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I'm trying to think of an individual who was an apologist and employed by the church, but after facing the facts "came out" and then subsequently gave up their church salaried position. Has this ever happened? Some keep their doubts to themselves until they retire to protect their salary. I'm wondering if $$$ help hardwire the apologist brain to always overlook the negative.

Anyone come to mind?

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:07 am 
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One of the last I can think if is William Law. It is very uncommon for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:55 am 
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I would tentatively say Dee Jay Nelson. I don't know much of his story though. Did the church pay him to translate the Book of Abraham back in the 1960's?


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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:06 am 
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Quinn

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:17 am 
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deacon blues wrote:
I would tentatively say Dee Jay Nelson. I don't know much of his story though. Did the church pay him to translate the Book of Abraham back in the 1960's?

I thought the LDS paid for JSjr to translate the Book of Abraham back in the 1830s and 1840s.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:42 am 
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I suppose BH Roberts came close.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:42 am 
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WAG - Ferguson?

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
Quinn


I'm pretty sure Quinn is still a believer, but you're right he left BYU because of pressure to tow the party line. That and being "the only gay in the village". It certainly wasn't your typical voluntary resignation.

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LDS apologetics --> "It's not the crime it's the cover-up which creates the scandal."
"Bigfoot is a crucial part of the ecosystem, if he exists. So let's all help keep Bigfoot possibly alive for future generations to enjoy unless he doesn't exist." - Futurama


Last edited by Simon Southerton on Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:46 pm 
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Tator wrote:
WAG - Ferguson?


I think he kept quiet about his doubts until late in life and I don't think his income was ever threatened.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:52 pm 
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deacon blues wrote:
I would tentatively say Dee Jay Nelson. I don't know much of his story though. Did the church pay him to translate the Book of Abraham back in the 1960's?

Pretty sure he was a fraud and wasn't employed by the church.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:01 pm 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
Quinn

My understanding is that he didn't quit - he got outed, fired, exed.


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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:10 pm 
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What about Don Bradley? He returned to the fold, but when he left had he been a church employee? He's probably a good person to put this question to, runs in those circles.

Also what about, Seth Payne or Kirk Caudle? Daymon Smith? He wrote Book of Mammon. Not sure if any of these guys qualify as apologists though. And I'm sure they all had plenty of options outside the church so maybe didn't fall on their swords career-wise.


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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:25 pm 
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Grant Palmer?


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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:09 pm 
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Water Dog wrote:
Grant Palmer?


Nope. He doesn't qualify. He kept his powder dry until after his retirement.

I suspect that once you have someone defending the church, also being paid by the church, you can guarantee complete loyalty. That's why I think it's significant that Ugo Perego is now employed by the church as director of CES in Rome. With a young family what is the liklihood he will ever face up to the facts? Zero. His complete loyalty has been purchased.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:34 pm 
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Uncle!

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Simon Southerton wrote:
Fence Sitter wrote:
Quinn


I'm pretty sure Quinn is still a believer, but you're right he left BYU because of pressure to tow the party line. That and being "the only gay in the village". It certainly wasn't your typical voluntary resignation.


How does towing the party line work, as opposed to toeing?


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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
How does towing the party line work, as opposed to toeing?


You of all people are going to call out an oronym.

Lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:14 pm 
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Water Dog wrote:
Fence Sitter wrote:
Quinn

My understanding is that he didn't quit - he got outed, fired, exed.


Simon asked about an apologist who was employed by the church and gave up their salaried position. I realize Quinn still considers himself a believer but that is not part of what Simon asked.

Quinn resigned from BYU in 1988.

He wasn't exed until Sept 26 1993.

He fits the criteria for the question Simon asked.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:18 pm 
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sock puppet wrote:
I thought the LDS paid for JSjr to translate the Book of Abraham back in the 1830s and 1840s.

I was just going to say Joseph Smith "came out" in a round about way.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:59 pm 
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dup

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Six months after its publication Soviet authorities banned the book and attempted to remove it from libraries and bookshops.


Last edited by Choyo Chagas on Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Apologist loyalty - Follow the money
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:04 pm 
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dup dup

sorry

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Choyo Chagas is Chairman of the Big Four, the ruler of the planet from "The Bull's Hour" ( Russian: Час Быка), a social science fiction novel written by Soviet author and paleontologist Ivan Yefremov in 1968.
Six months after its publication Soviet authorities banned the book and attempted to remove it from libraries and bookshops.


Last edited by Choyo Chagas on Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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